Nov

Theological Acrobatics

Posted by: Sonny in Application, Belief, Sovereignty, Theology

Have you ever seen a display of skilled acrobatics? The twisting, and the turning, and the bending, and the seeming ability to tie the human body into knots seem almost impossible to someone, like me, that on some mornings find it painful to tie my shoes. The flexibility and the agility displayed looks painful and amazing at the same time. It goes to show you that almost anything can be made to appear in ways that were not intended, like the human body.

I read a couple of sites occasionally that are mostly made up of Calvinists. I do it to stay informed and also because I have a need to test my beliefs to see if I am in error. These people paint an amazing but troubling, picture of God. One that makes Him so meticulous in His control, so omniscient He already knows what I am having for lunch on June 12^th 2011, so omnipotent that no one can even be presented as in opposition to His will, above and outside time and yet still able to relate to us in time, and so locked in rigidity that it seems even He is not free to do other than He has done.

It just doesn’t make sense.

How do these conclusions allow for real free will?

How do these conclusions make anyone other than God responsible for evil?

How do these conclusions make sense of Gods own words describing His responses to prayer and repentance?

How do these conclusions allow or have room for the dynamic loving relationship He wants with us all?

I could go on and on with the questions. But you probably see what I am talking about. The answer to the how is that they have made up or coined so many phrases to describe their different justifications for everything, that it is like watching great acrobatics. They know their argument well and twist, bend and toss it out in a way that even those who do not believe the way they do, fall prey to using the same terminology because of the agility of the argument.

Some of the people that I know personally use the same words and don’t really know what they are implying.

I read these other blogs and come away with my head swimming in amazement that so many can give an answer to my questions, yet really say nothing at all. And they use many, many words to do it. Maybe that is it. I just don’t know as many words or how to say things in enough ways.

I am a simple man. Only a High school graduate. But I am willing to dig. But not willing to learn acrobatics or gymnastics to interpret the Bible. While the display of acrobatics is amazing, it has to hurt. Especially if you ever give up on the continual training needed to keep up the necessary flexibility.

Do we really have to twist and turn and even tie ourselves into knots to understand God? The love of God just does not seem to be that mysterious to me.

Love you all

Tags: acrobatics, Belief, Bible, conclusions, Evil, flexibility, Free will, God, justifications, Personal, rigidity, terminology

This entry was posted on Sunday, November 16th, 2008 at 1:57 am and is filed under Application, Belief, Sovereignty, Theology. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

6 comments so far

Shannon Mimbs

I am reminded of what a friend once said when he was studying the reality of spiritual war between God and the enemy – “This is kind of scary…”

Knowing my friend’s walk with God, I realized that he didn’t mean that he was living without faith in Jesus. He was expressing the sobering awareness brought about by an unguarded reading of the Scriptures, of a spiritual warfare wherein God’s will is at times “thwarted” or resisted, and free agents (e.g. fallen angels) really impact our lives.

When I first came into the Kingdom, I heard many Pentecostal preachers/teachers describe God by using somewhat rigid (fundamentalist-evangelical) terminology, such as “impassible,” “immutable,” “unmoved,” “timeless,” etc. In many ways, they were “uncritically” describing who God is supposed to be; using terminology from traditions that oftentimes deemed Pentecostals to be heretical.

However, I think it’s important that (as a community) we ask ourselves if such terms best speak of God, as he is displayed in the biblical testimony? This underscores the importance of theological reflection for the health of the church. One prof told us that good theology is important because we want to talk rightly of God (as is possible), for this is part and parcel to our witness. Such reflection asks questions such as – Are we reading the Scriptures merely to fill in a script? Are we searching for texts to prop up what we have been told by someone else? Or… Are we listening to the overall witness of the Scriptures? Are we allowing the Scriptures to read us, critiquing our lives in such a way that we realize we must surrender all to Jesus?

I think your blog drives us to such needed reflection. It helps us slow down and ask – Why do I believe what I believe? Why do I live the way I live?

Blessings

November 16th, 2008 at 3:15 am

Sonny

Thanks Shannon

I seem to be driven lately to make the aloof, unreachable, almost dictatorial and tyrannical picture of God as painted in the Old Testament and mostly confirmed by traditional theology, look like Jesus. He said He came to show us the proper picture of His Father.

I have been doing this since I got saved, but your first book suggestion helped me down a path that has enabled me to see that what I thought I saw in scripture was really there.

I thank you for that more than I can say.

Love you

November 16th, 2008 at 4:41 am

Connie

Shannon mentioned something in his comment that kinda hit home with me. “Are we listening to the overall witness of the Scriptures”?

Before I came into the Kingdom of God, I sometimes read the Scriptures, heard people quote the Scriptures, but did not really choose to listen to them for fear I would have to give up something that was dear to me….sin.

I was a “bender” and a “twister” both of God’s laws and man’s laws. I knew better, but did not want to yield to what I knew what was right or holy. I used the kind of rationality such as, “I think it’s okay to smoke pot because it is a natural herb that God put here”. Well yeah, so is hemlock. I was bending and twisting.

I have a better relationship with God now. I am hungry for Him and spend more time with Him. I work at doing what He wants from me. I am thankful that He was always there even before I asked Him.

Sometimes He speaks to me and I don’t understand why or what He wants, but I try my best. God IS too complex for me to understand sometimes. Those are the times I have to just stop “thinking” for a while and just feel Him.

Love and Peace to you all.

November 16th, 2008 at 8:08 pm

Shannon Mimbs

Connie,

Your comment is a splendid example of how a heartfelt relationship with Christ is the key. Of course, head knowledge is part of the relationship, but that type of knowledge only gets us so far. In addition to knowing about the Lord, we must trust him with our hearts (as your comment encourages).

I heard a preacher once say that many folks will miss heaven by about 18 inches… He said that was the average distance between the head and the heart.

Just like you, many times I have to stop trying to figure everything out with my mind and chill out in a time of prayerful adoration. Prayerfully imagining Jesus to be sitting beside me, his loving presence brings peace and comfort.

“In presence of the Lord is fullness of Joy”

Peace

November 18th, 2008 at 4:46 am

Hin-Tai

I’d have to agree with your thoughts on Calvinism. I have to admit that the God it portrays can often unnerve me. I’ve recently read about Molinism, which I find more agreeable. Where are your theological inclinations in this area?

Like you said, knowledge is important; after all, we are to love God with our minds; but again, like you said, we can not neglect weaknesses in loving Him with our souls and our hearts.

December 8th, 2008 at 5:26 pm

Sonny

Hin Tai

Glad to hear from you. I think you mentioned starting school. I hope that is going well.

As far as Molinism goes, I really think that they may be going for medals in these acrobatics too. It seems that the driving force behind coming up with terms to describe Gods attributes is in our unwillingness to say that there may be things God does not know.

I don’t think of this as blasphemy. How can we think any less of God if He does not know, and I mean in an exhaustive way, the future. The future is the future because it is not yet here.

I believe God has a perfect exhaustive knowledge of the past. He is not losing brain cells like us and never forgets. I believe He has a perfect exhaustive knowledge of the present. Being everywhere and having the ability to see us better than even we see ourselves, He knows all that is going on now.

But when we get to future foreknowledge, how can He see what wwe are going to do before we do it and we still entertain the idea that we have free will. I am not saying that He causes us to make the choice we do; my problem is trying to figure out how I could have chosen differently than what He has supposedly already seen.

That goes for all the different types of knowledge as described in Molinism and definitely in the Calvinist notion of foreknowledge.

Check out my discussions with Justin in the TOTUS TUUS page at the top of blog for further discussion.

I am going to have to say that I believe that God knows all of our future choices as possibilities. And that He knows all the possibilities. This is sort of like the Molinists middle knowledge idea but I don’t think He created from that knowledge beforehand. I believe He can work things out to the good no matter what. So if I was going to use a term it would probably be omniintelligence and omniintuitiveness.

This gets a little deep and it will be discussed here in other blogs as time goes by. My views line up mostly with the open theism camp, but I detest labeling myself. I want to be a follower, a servant, a soldier for Christ.

Some sources for reading would be Greg Boyd, John Sanders, and Clark Pinnock. I am reading Most Moved Mover right now by Pinnock.

I really appreciate your questions and comments

Love you

December 8th, 2008 at 9:20 pm