Comments on: Tuesday Town Hall 17…Rights, Real Or Imagined? http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/ Just a few things I want to say Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:24:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-866 Sonny Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:40:02 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-866 <blockquote>We could discuss a lot about what we think about rights and we probably all have opinions. Was that your intention or were you wanting commentary on the original statement?</blockquote> I don't know how to make it any clearer. But I will try. <strong>I don't care about the Declaration of Independence for this discussion or what the writer meant.</strong> I want a simple answer to the following questions, once more. * As Christians, do you believe our creator, God, has given us these rights? * Do you believe we have any rights at all? * What are they? :hh:

We could discuss a lot about what we think about rights and we probably all have opinions. Was that your intention or were you wanting commentary on the original statement?

I don’t know how to make it any clearer. But I will try.

I don’t care about the Declaration of Independence for this discussion or what the writer meant.

I want a simple answer to the following questions, once more.

* As Christians, do you believe our creator, God, has given us these rights?
* Do you believe we have any rights at all?
* What are they?

:hh:

]]> By: Justin A http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-865 Justin A Fri, 06 Feb 2009 03:26:31 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-865 No justification intended or implied. Just wondering if anyone knew what the originator of the phrase meant. No justification intended or implied. Just wondering if anyone knew what the originator of the phrase meant.

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-864 Sonny Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:48:00 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-864 I simply want to know all of your answers to my questions. I am not trying to deceive, or complicate an issue that to me seems pretty plain. Maybe it is my lack of intelligence but if a "right" is something that is due to me, something I ought to have just because I exist, then is the DoI true in its statement. Again, maybe I am too simple, but the question is not that hard to me. <strong>...that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.</strong> * As Christians, do you believe our creator, God, has given us these rights? * Do you believe we have any rights at all? * What are they? If you do not want to answer then you do not have to. Providing us with definitions and historical lessons do not help in answering what I asked. A plain reading of the information I have provided and a simple answer to the questions I have asked, is really all I want here. The forum is wide open for personal thoughts, historical information, or anything else. I am not against my post here increasing dialogue, but I would like all of you to answer. It is why I ask. :) Love you all P.S. Justin, with your justification of all of our "different" opinions on rights, am I to take it that you are joining John in a "relative" worldview? 8) I simply want to know all of your answers to my questions. I am not trying to deceive, or complicate an issue that to me seems pretty plain. Maybe it is my lack of intelligence but if a “right” is something that is due to me, something I ought to have just because I exist, then is the DoI true in its statement.

Again, maybe I am too simple, but the question is not that hard to me.

…that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

* As Christians, do you believe our creator, God, has given us these rights?
* Do you believe we have any rights at all?
* What are they?

If you do not want to answer then you do not have to. Providing us with definitions and historical lessons do not help in answering what I asked. A plain reading of the information I have provided and a simple answer to the questions I have asked, is really all I want here. The forum is wide open for personal thoughts, historical information, or anything else. I am not against my post here increasing dialogue, but I would like all of you to answer.

It is why I ask. :)

Love you all

P.S. Justin, with your justification of all of our “different” opinions on rights, am I to take it that you are joining John in a “relative” worldview? 8)

]]> By: Justin A http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-862 Justin A Thu, 05 Feb 2009 11:44:07 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-862 It seems that we all have some type of concept of rights but it is hard to put it in words. Your definition "something that is due to a person" can be interpreted in many ways. Is it due from God? Is it due from our fellow man? From our fellow citizens? Are others required to respect them? Are they due in all circumstances? Do some rights trump others? Since you mentioned specific rights, those enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, I thought it might be a good idea to understand what was meant by the writer. I have never heard but one or two people in my life who had a clue what "pursuit of happiness" meant. I am guessing that many if not most who read my comment are wondering if it is even true. Since it was worded the way it was, the way people wrote back in those days, I wonder if anyone understands what it means. It would be interesting to hear someone take a stab at it. We could discuss a lot about what we think about rights and we probably all have opinions. Was that your intention or were you wanting commentary on the original statement? It seems that we all have some type of concept of rights but it is hard to put it in words. Your definition “something that is due to a person” can be interpreted in many ways. Is it due from God? Is it due from our fellow man? From our fellow citizens? Are others required to respect them? Are they due in all circumstances? Do some rights trump others?

Since you mentioned specific rights, those enumerated in the Declaration of Independence, I thought it might be a good idea to understand what was meant by the writer. I have never heard but one or two people in my life who had a clue what “pursuit of happiness” meant. I am guessing that many if not most who read my comment are wondering if it is even true. Since it was worded the way it was, the way people wrote back in those days, I wonder if anyone understands what it means. It would be interesting to hear someone take a stab at it.

We could discuss a lot about what we think about rights and we probably all have opinions. Was that your intention or were you wanting commentary on the original statement?

]]> By: Shannon Mimbs http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-860 Shannon Mimbs Thu, 05 Feb 2009 07:59:09 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-860 I think that many of the previous comments attempt to qualify "rights" because we all know that apart from God, we do not have (true) life, liberty or happiness. In light of such, I would have to say that I am uncomfortable saying that I have "rights" as a Christian. Understandably, there are aspects of a Christian's life which entail certain "benefits" (if you will) as it relates to life, liberty and happiness. And all of these qualities of life, liberty and happiness are inextricably linked with one's relationship with God. However, to call these "rights" (in light of the definition Sonny provided) seems to teeter on the edge of autonomy, which seems to imply "life" or "liberty" or "happiness" as being a personal possession instead of organically connected to life, liberty and happiness in God. :HEAD: I think that many of the previous comments attempt to qualify “rights” because we all know that apart from God, we do not have (true) life, liberty or happiness. In light of such, I would have to say that I am uncomfortable saying that I have “rights” as a Christian. Understandably, there are aspects of a Christian’s life which entail certain “benefits” (if you will) as it relates to life, liberty and happiness. And all of these qualities of life, liberty and happiness are inextricably linked with one’s relationship with God. However, to call these “rights” (in light of the definition Sonny provided) seems to teeter on the edge of autonomy, which seems to imply “life” or “liberty” or “happiness” as being a personal possession instead of organically connected to life, liberty and happiness in God. :HEAD:

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-856 Sonny Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:35:43 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-856 Justin All of that is great to share as a resource of information but I do not really see your answers in the statement. I could probably guess from this post but that would be unfair of me to try. For clarity, what are your answers? And thanks for your response. I thought you would be all over this one. :lol: Love you all Justin

All of that is great to share as a resource of information but I do not really see your answers in the statement. I could probably guess from this post but that would be unfair of me to try.

For clarity, what are your answers?

And thanks for your response. I thought you would be all over this one. :lol:

Love you all

]]> By: Justin A http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-855 Justin A Thu, 05 Feb 2009 04:28:37 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-855 I found this in an article by Kent Schmidt. (Blackstone wrote Commentaries on the Law and was probably the most quoted author by the founding fathers of the U.S.) BTW, wouldn't you think that the meaning of the opening phrase of the founding document of the U.S. would be in a history book somewhere. Do you wonder if the fact that it depends on God had anything to do with the oversight? I was old before I found out where the phrase came from or what it meant. D. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness It is axiomatic that the right to life is foundational to all other rights. On this subject, Blackstone stated:The right of personal security consists in a person's legal and uninterrupted enjoyment of his life, his limbs, his body, his health, and his reputation. Life is an immediate gift from God, a right inherent by nature in every individual. . . .14 Jefferson's use of the term “pursuit of happiness” has been distorted to justify a philosophy which borders on anarchy. The Founding Fathers' understanding of the concept of happiness was much closer to that of Blackstone, who stated that the Creator has so intimately connected, so inseparably interwoven the laws of eternal justice with the happiness of each individual that the latter cannot be attained but by observing the former; and if the former be punctually obeyed, it cannot but induce the latter. In consequence of which mutual connection of justice and human felicity, he has not perplexed the law of nature with a multitude of abstract rules and precepts, referring merely to the fitness or unfitness of things . . . but has graciously reduced the rule of obedience to this one paternal precept, “that man should pursue his own true and substantial happiness.”15 It is not at all surprising that Thomas Jefferson used the phrase “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” to describe unalienable rights. I found this in an article by Kent Schmidt. (Blackstone wrote Commentaries on the Law and was probably the most quoted author by the founding fathers of the U.S.) BTW, wouldn’t you think that the meaning of the opening phrase of the founding document of the U.S. would be in a history book somewhere. Do you wonder if the fact that it depends on God had anything to do with the oversight? I was old before I found out where the phrase came from or what it meant.

D. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness
It is axiomatic that the right to life is foundational to all other rights. On this subject, Blackstone stated:The right of personal security consists in a person’s legal and uninterrupted enjoyment of his life, his limbs, his body, his health, and his reputation. Life is an immediate gift from God, a right inherent by nature in every individual. . . .14

Jefferson’s use of the term “pursuit of happiness” has been distorted to justify a philosophy which borders on anarchy. The Founding Fathers’ understanding of the concept of happiness was much closer to that of Blackstone, who stated that the Creator has so intimately connected, so inseparably interwoven the laws of eternal justice with the happiness of each individual that the latter cannot be attained but by observing the former; and if the former be punctually obeyed, it cannot but induce the latter. In consequence of which mutual connection of justice and human felicity, he has not perplexed the law of nature with a multitude of abstract rules and precepts, referring merely to the fitness or unfitness of things . . . but has graciously reduced the rule of obedience to this one paternal precept, “that man should pursue his own true and substantial happiness.”15

It is not at all surprising that Thomas Jefferson used the phrase “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” to describe unalienable rights.

]]> By: Dee Mimbs http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-853 Dee Mimbs Wed, 04 Feb 2009 22:16:06 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-853 Just a quick thought, as I do not have much time. I do not believe that anything is "due" us from God. However, God died for us to return some of the "rights" we had lost in the fall. Mainly, the right to life. Originally, God had given us the "right" to life, in that nature was required to let us live. However, because of the fall, we forfeited that right. By Jesus dying, he reclaimed that "right" for us. These types of rights that Jesus came to reinstitute are not rights that are due to us by God but are instead rights that are due to us by nature because God (the creator of nature) gave them to us. I know that maybe my words are not quite the best -- I don't have time right now to choose them as carefully as I would like, so please be aware of that when you read this. :HEAD: Just a quick thought, as I do not have much time. I do not believe that anything is “due” us from God. However, God died for us to return some of the “rights” we had lost in the fall. Mainly, the right to life.

Originally, God had given us the “right” to life, in that nature was required to let us live. However, because of the fall, we forfeited that right. By Jesus dying, he reclaimed that “right” for us. These types of rights that Jesus came to reinstitute are not rights that are due to us by God but are instead rights that are due to us by nature because God (the creator of nature) gave them to us.

I know that maybe my words are not quite the best — I don’t have time right now to choose them as carefully as I would like, so please be aware of that when you read this. :HEAD:

]]> By: Connie http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-852 Connie Wed, 04 Feb 2009 18:33:01 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-852 In most all of the previous posts the words "God gave" or "God has given" were mentioned. Actually I feel that we do not DESERVE any "rights" from God, but He has graciously given them to us as gifts of love. Just an after thought. In most all of the previous posts the words “God gave” or “God has given” were mentioned. Actually I feel that we do not DESERVE any “rights” from God, but He has graciously given them to us as gifts of love.

Just an after thought.

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/02/03/tuesday-town-hall-17%e2%80%a6rights-real-or-imagined/comment-page-1/#comment-851 Anthony Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:37:22 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1001#comment-851 I do believe that God created a people that were capable of establishing the rights that we have in the US. I also think that a "free" country is in resemblance to God's grace. We are not promised to live another day. The only liberty we are promised is in Christ. The pursuit of happiness should be our own personal mission to continually grow in Christ and never be content. There are countries that do not have these rights and yet the true believers are continually in the pursuit of Christ and have liberty in knowing their outcome when life is over. God has promised us many things as a Christian people, but the only rights given to us were whether we chose to believe in Christ or not. Free Will is the only right we have, other than that our "rights" as a Christian are limited. God allows us to do many things, but only in his glory...... i.e. Many are called, few are chosen. I do believe that God created a people that were capable of establishing the rights that we have in the US. I also think that a “free” country is in resemblance to God’s grace. We are not promised to live another day. The only liberty we are promised is in Christ. The pursuit of happiness should be our own personal mission to continually grow in Christ and never be content. There are countries that do not have these rights and yet the true believers are continually in the pursuit of Christ and have liberty in knowing their outcome when life is over.

God has promised us many things as a Christian people, but the only rights given to us were whether we chose to believe in Christ or not. Free Will is the only right we have, other than that our “rights” as a Christian are limited. God allows us to do many things, but only in his glory…… i.e. Many are called, few are chosen.

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