Feb

Behind Closed Doors

Posted by: Sonny in Appearance, Belief, Body of Christ, Love, Relevance, witness

A couple of days ago I asked some questions about alcohol and whether the bible condemns all consumption of it as sin. On the face of this it seems pretty certain that it is not. Any casual reader of the stories of Jesus would recognize the fact that His first recorded miracle was turning water into wine. And there are other direct references of His very own consumption of it. Yet I have read and heard many arguments about it being sin.

There are those that will use all kind of pretty far out excuses to say that this is not really saying what we think. The scripture is not saying what it seems to say. Grape juice? Really? Are we to believe that God is just trying His best to confuse us?

There are those that, in the past and probably still today, say that it is even wrong for a Christian to serve or sell alcohol. Again, I point to Christ’s first miracle. If I should not serve or sell it then why in the world would Jesus turn water into it? We seem to still have tremendous problems with self-righteousness.

These thoughts and questions are not really the reason I raised this question though. For some very thoughtful, adult insights about the consumption argument in general, please read Tuesdays post and comments. Everyone who responded made points I not only believe to be correct but I hold to them myself. And I especially think that when you vow or commit to something as Heath and Jason did as ministers, then you should adhere to those commitments like they pointed out that they did.

If the organization you join says you have to stand on one foot for 30 seconds and face east at 8:00 am every third Tuesday and you agree, then you must do it whether it makes sense or not, if you are a person of integrity. The health and danger issues are also valid reasons why not drinking makes sense, and the witness in a culture that definitely glorifies alcohol as the means to get drunk is not one the Kingdom really needs. I don’t drink myself for some of these reasons.

As I stated though, I brought it all up for the same reason I have brought up other things recently. If we spent as much time as some do on defending these obviously unbiblical beliefs such as drinking being sin, with as much zeal and commitment, in reaching out to those outside the Kingdom, we could really glorify God. Instead we waste tremendous amounts of time on our own legalistic views and arguments.

Alcohol is only one small part of a whole host of things that some Christians seem to want to focus on in spite of the fact that they have a mission to do. Appearances are important as some believe when talking about drinking, but what about the appearance of condemnation we portray that is not even biblically justified. When the lost of this world see us bickering and fighting and even bringing the charge of heresy against a minister that obviously is not heretical, what do they think? I will tell you what they think because it was not that long ago that I thought it. They think that there is no God. And if there is He is not that big, not that great, and not that powerful because His whole family is so hypocritical and unloving of even each other.

We must reach out in love to a lost and dying world and to do that we have got to stop adding our own lists of sins to Gods. That is what Jesus condemned about the Pharisees and the bible even warns us about adding to His word, but we just don’t seem to get it. This world of lost souls is not concerned about our petty arguments and disagreements about alcohol, about divorce, about creation, about (dare I say it) initial evidence. What this worlds lost souls are concerned about, whether they even know it or not, is the eternal destination of their very being. And even if they are not concerned, we must be.

As I said on my post about creation recently, let’s stop all the arguing about pet doctrines and interpretations in front of the kids, so to speak, and wait until we get behind closed doors.

Love you all

Tags: alcohol, Appearance, Belief, Bible, consumption, Creation, Culture, God, Interpretation, Kingdom, Love, Righteousness, Self, Sin, witness

This entry was posted on Thursday, February 19th, 2009 at 3:57 am and is filed under Appearance, Belief, Body of Christ, Love, Relevance, witness. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

9 comments so far

Christie

Leviticus Chapter 10

9 Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:
10 And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean;

If you can not do it in church (the tabernacle) then why would you do it outside of the church. If anything causes you to stumble, stay away from it. There is nothing worth taking a chance on losing favor in your Father’s eye. I mess up enough without fogging my path even more. Yes, I would be drunk with one glass of wine.

February 19th, 2009 at 10:46 am

Sonny

Thanks Christie for your response

February 19th, 2009 at 2:35 pm

Anthony

If you read Exodus 27:21 “In the tent of meeting, without the veil which is before the testimony, Aaron and his sons shall keep it in order from evening to morning before Jehovah: it shall be a statue for ever throughout their generations on the behalf of the children of Israel.” and continue through Numbers you will find that Aaron and the sons of Aaron are priests. This passage is where God is speaking directly to the Priests of the church (Aaron and his sons). The sons of Aaron are mentioned as priests continuously throughout the old testament.

I do believe that a priest, as referred to here, should be held to a higher standard. I have searched the bible while in conversation about a christian and drinking. In nowhere have I found where it say drinking alcohol is a sin for anyone. With gluttony being a sin, then drink to get drunk has to be. In Matthew 26: 27-29 Jesus says “Drink ye all of it” in verse 27 and “But I say unto you, I shall not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.” in verse 29. I do where drinking is a sin if Jesus tells his disciples to do so.

February 19th, 2009 at 3:45 pm

Anthony

Last sentence should read. I don’t know where drinking is a sin if Jesus tells his disciples to do so. Sorry, got ahead of myself.

February 19th, 2009 at 4:13 pm

BamaLand Don

If we keep some things in its right perspective in culture and traditions, they explain a lot in themselves. I do not drink any wines myself but do cook with them so when I check out at the market, some might get the wrong idea. Is the the appearance of evil? Dr. Vernon McGee said it was grape-juice. I thought a man with his stature and knowledge would come up with something more Biblical? The Holy Spirit gives us enough guide-lines in the subject to not get confused in the word and conscience. I like your closed doors when children are around and also when unstable Christians are around also to hear some issues. Let’s not gather up the tares to early. . . Sincerely, Don.

February 24th, 2009 at 10:52 am

Mark

I notice there are alot of OT verses used and I believe Matthew 26:27-29 is used slightly out of context.

Let’s see some more NT Verses

Colossians 1:18- He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.
Make sure Christ is exalted in all things

Romans 6:14 – For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

1 Cor 6:12 – All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

2 Peter 2:20 – For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.

I could run through about 10 plus verses to make this point:

Don’t do it if it does not exalt Christ or edify the body.

There are many people that do not have any self control.
I can drink one beer and stop and not have another for a year.
I use to drink an occasional beer, no more than 2 at anytime. But As soon as I started teaching youth i stopped because I did not want one of guys see me at Applebees drinking a pint and think that is cool because Mr. Mark can drink and that one guy not have ant self control and ends up becoming an alcoholic or worse kill someone while drinking and driving.
I don’t want to cause a brother to stumble.
Then again there are many other things we do that does not Exalt Christ or edify the body!

Be Blessed and stay true to the Word!

Sonny I like your site, Arlon pointed me to it…

February 26th, 2009 at 7:46 pm

Sonny

Mark

Your comments are welcome and I agree with all you said. I do not drink and haven’t since I entered service to our King. Some of the point and scripture you used I have recently been using in classes quite often.

If you’ve had the opportunity to read very much of my opinions you will find that I do not use this site to teach but usually offer opinion or commentary. I am focused here on delving into why it seems at times we are so ineffective in our mission to reach the lost. I will not abandon the essentials but I also want our arguments to really be biblically sound. I am not saying this for my edification or to belittle anyone else but I knew more about the bible when I was an atheist than most of the churchgoers I ran into. I am on a mission to change that. At church through teaching and here through dialogue.

Thanks for your input and please come back again

February 26th, 2009 at 10:25 pm

Mark

Hey again Sonny.
Arlon told me of your conversion and that is an AWESOME story.

You may have known the Bible on an intellectual sense but you really did not know it in a spiritual sense. 1 Corinthians 2:14 “The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God. for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they spiritually discerned”

Now you really know what it means as the Holy Spirit imparts that knowledge to you.

Now to your question “why it seems at times we are so ineffective in our mission to reach the lost.”

At the risk of sounding like a Hyper-Calvinist we need to keep in mind the the Father draws the lost to the Son. But we have to spread the seed of the Gospel message.
But I feel we have a “church” body full of dry bones. Thanks to the weak Gospel message that Rick Warren and his “seeker movement” buddies. And weak Sunday School materials, at least for us baptist who are stuck with LifeWay material. I don’t know what the COG uses, I hope it is better.
My MacArthur commentary on Hebrews is about 3-4 inches thick and the verse by verse study LifeWay put out on it was about 1/4 inch thick. We are keeping our people stupid.

How many do you know that say “I don’t study the Bible because I can’t understand it.”
Does that square with 1 Cor. 2:14
Sure there are things in there that will not understand 100% until we go Home.
How many do not even read the Bible or pick it up only on Sunday?

I think it comes down to a church full of people with a head knowledge.
As John Piper puts it “Not a new creation but an improved “natural person”"
And churches are scared not to use discipline as called out in Matthew 15-17.
And I doubt that many of us examines ourselves much as 1 John says.

Hope to talk more later!
Again, I love what you write.

Mark

February 28th, 2009 at 8:49 pm

Sonny

Mark

Thanks and I really do hope to see more from you. After I was saved I did realize that I needed the Holy Spirits help in finding the truth of the bible. Without that realization I could have kicked myself even harder for all those wasted years.

Love you all

February 28th, 2009 at 9:03 pm