Feb

Tuesday Town Hall 20…Anger Or Truth

Posted by: Sonny in Body of Christ, Hypocrisy, Townhall Tuesday

tues-town-hal5l I know that some are starting to think I am angry or at the very least too harsh in my views. Maybe so. But there are many things out there going on in the body of Christ that are not very helpful to the health of that same body. If you choose to not see this then I cannot make you look. But I can call out in desperation for sincere inner reflection. This is what I am doing. And for those that read and respond that I personally know from my own church, what I write on this blog is not necessarily all aimed at you. I do have people reading that I do not know personally and that are not even in the Church of God. This post and all the previous ones are based on my observations of the church in general.

I have been so hesitant to speak out directly for fear of offending. I know some of you may not think so but I have been cautious. It is starting to come out in frustration though. So starting in this post, which on Tuesdays usually is anyway, I am going to start asking questions instead of giving my opinion for a while. I want to know if I am wrong. I really want all of us, especially myself, to speak truthfully and start coming to some profitable conclusions.

“Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

These are the questions. In light of the commandment and instruction Jesus left us in Matthew, I ask the following.

What are you personally doing to follow this command?

What is your church doing to follow this command?

Is your church growing from the addition of new disciples?

I really want to know.

Love you all

Tags: anger, Body of Christ, Church, frustration, jesus, Self, town hall

This entry was posted on Tuesday, February 24th, 2009 at 12:13 am and is filed under Body of Christ, Hypocrisy, Townhall Tuesday. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

8 comments so far

Bro L

What are you doing

February 24th, 2009 at 6:32 am

BamaLand Don

I thought I would just drop a comment here on Matt. 28:19; the great commision give the church and individual Christian of course who are in themselves priest in the Church of God. We are not called to build great denominations or temples or even local chapels to worship in, but we are called to live and preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and that is a big job in itself.
Local chruch’s are not club houses to meet and fellowship, but are decdicated building of wood and brick to fellowship in worship and prayer, true Christian body’s gather in assembly to praise and give glory to the Lord for what he has done for us daily. It is an active positive sharing of God’s wonderful one on one relationship with him. Sincerely Don in BamaLand.

February 24th, 2009 at 10:28 am

Sonny

Bro L please see last post for my comment and please see me in church. I don’t know who you are but if you want to stay anonymous go to the forum by clicking on A Sonny Gathering and we can talk there also.

Thanks Don for your comment also. I do believe we often see church as just a club house or a necessity or something else. But not what I think they truly are which is a place for the equipping of the saints for mission.

Love you all

February 24th, 2009 at 11:03 am

Connie

What am I personally doing?
(1) I teach Sunday School to the Upper Elementary class. I pray that they are learning from my teachings. I see them learning to pray and see them worship. Now once a month I am allowing my students to lead the class in discussion to help prepare them to be disciples of the Word.
(2) I work at the Food Bank at church. I have one on one interaction with the people that come for assistance. As I get to know them (some I already knew) I ask if they attend church. Most do. If not I invite them to ours. I have put our schedule on the back of the qualification form and invite anyone who does not have a regular church.
(3) I still try to stay in touch with the people I was involved with in our homeless ministry. It’s hard to keep up though.

What is my church doing to follow this command?
We do have the Food Bank. There are several people that do come and help with the work involved that do not regularly attend church. It helps them feel “necessary” and gives them some kind of purpose. Hopefully that will eventually blossom into something greater such as a closer relationship with the Father. We have a wonderful Children’s Ministry that seems to be growing. I think if the church had the funds available, we could do more if our members would step out and participate.

Is your church growing from the addition of new disciples?
In the 14 years I have been at my church, the numbers have basically stayed the same. Some have come and some have gone. I have, however, seen many from our church grow as disciples and go out in the world as pastors, youth pastors, musicians, etc.

February 24th, 2009 at 12:25 pm

Dee Mimbs

These three questions are difficult for me to answer. I know that I, personally, try to minister to those around me while at work. I try my best to let them know that I love God and them and that if they need me, I will be there. I teach at the church and minister in whatever way I can. But, I could probably do more.

That’s the thing — we could always do more. As individuals, as a church — we can always do more.

However, while I am a minister, I am also a mathematician, and I feel like my calling there is just as important and even an avenue through which I can minister. I feel this constant tension between my job and God’s ministry, and I am realizing more and more that these are not mutually exclusive concepts.

I do not believe that our church has enough outreaches to the community, but before we can reach out to the community, we must have people who are willing to do that reaching and who are organized enough to come up with a plan. The individual impacts the church community and vice versa. So, it seems that the attitude of the “church” reflects the attitude of the members.

One more note: Sometimes growth in numbers is not indicative of a healthy church (I know plenty of large churches that I would not consider “healthy” in their beliefs and teaching.), and sometimes one can do much work and see little result in the area of converts. I know two dear people who were missionaries to Japan for eight years and only saw a handful of converts. But, they built relationships that are strong, and those converts can go on now and make more.

I’m sleepy at the moment. So, I’ll think about it some more and may post a bit later.

Blessings,
Dee

February 25th, 2009 at 12:07 am

Shannon Mimbs

As D mentioned, these are some challenging questions. I have thought about this throughout the day and, quite honestly, am still chewing on it a bit. At the heart of the verse is to show others how to follow Jesus. In order to do this, we must go to others with the love of Christ. I think that one of the reasons for going to others is that doing so is at the heart of following Jesus. Christ sets the example of self-sacrificing love. It is a picture of God’s out-reaching nature. And the Spirit of Christ empowers the Church to be an extension of the anointed ministry of Jesus. In this way, when we reach out to those around us, we participate in the outreach of God. God is already reaching out to others. It is our responsibility to get on board with his mission to the hurting, lost, and marginalized, as well as those on the faith journey.

The Lord is challenging my family with “being” neighbors to those around us (everywhere we find ourselves and in practical ways). Building intentional relationships of care is key to having the “permission” to speak into someone’s life (esp. concerning something as important as eternity). Also, in order for me to desire to love those around me, I must spend time with the Lord (in His Word, in conversation with Him, in being quiet at times and focusing on hearing Him, etc.) and continually allow Him to pour His love into my life. So, I guess at the heart of my response concerning what I am doing is that I am trying to focus on who we are (being). I don’t want simply to get caught up in learning the mechanics of a specific style of “doing” church while not genuinely following the Lord. At the same time, I don’t want to focus so much on “being” a witness that I don’t take action in intentionally ministering to those around us. What we do in ministering to our neighbors flows from who we are as a people are in the process of change (to be more like Jesus).

Also, our local assembly is in the midst of a transition right now (as many know). We’re undergoing a pastoral change soon as our current pastor is set to retire next month. Of the many important things that we must do together as a faith family to extend God’s love to our community, one important aspect is to bind together during this transition. This is part of our “making disciples.” For one, our children (physical and spiritual) are watching to see how the “grown ups” respond during such transition. Are we intentionally sticking together despite our differences of opinion? Or are we allowing our preferences to sidetrack us from standing beside our brothers and sisters and considering what is most needed to advance God’s reign of love (Kingdom)? I know that what Sonny has shared with us these last few posts stems from a heart that strongly desires the very best for the Church (and at the core of this is everyone being on board with God’s mission of love to our neighbors). And it is easy to grow quite frustrated with others and ourselves when it seems that the big picture of following Jesus is being misconstrued or even ignored.

I think at the core of our church obeying this command of Jesus in Matt 28.19 (at this point in time) is for us (me included) to:

- Spend worshipful (quality) time with God (esp. in His Word and in conversation with Him)
- Spend sacrificial (quality) time with others
- Share our views and opinions with the goal of reconciliation in mind
- Be mindful of God’s intervening presence in the midst of his people
- Remember that “discipleship” goes beyond programs, meeting times and worship styles. At the heart of “discipleship” is intentional relationships focused on following Jesus Christ.
- Be inflexible regarding love and flexible regarding how to reach an ever changing world. As the adage goes, “The message never changes. But our methods do.” In my opinion, many of our methods must change to minister more faithfully to our neighbors. For example, I am wrestling with how to shed some communication habits which hinder me from effectively speaking to others about God. Now, this is tough, because the tendency is for me to stay the same and expect others to like it our lump it, so to say. But would that be a loving (Christlike) attitude for me to maintain? I don’t think so. So, as hard as it is, I will have to change.

Regarding the growth of the Church, I think some are indeed (graciously) making progress in Christlikeness (at least in the awareness of what we must be and do). Of course, this is all by the gracious workings of (and folks’ participation with) the Holy Spirit. Hopefully, these ones who are determining to grow in God’s grace will positively influence all of us. Also, there are a few new faces around, but it seems to me that some of the “usual” folks are looking more like Jesus in many ways. May we all lay aside anything that would hinder such transformation and selflessly (and faith-fully) follow Jesus (in our relationship with God as well as each other).

Peace

February 25th, 2009 at 2:33 am

Mike Ward

Sonny, Shannon & Dee

For me, the difficulty of dealing with the implementation of the principles of the Great Commission is a very practical one–space and time. By this, I mean that my view of the Great Commission is one of a call to relationships, intimate ones, that this society and Christianity itself are for the most part oblivious to both the need for and availability of such relationships.We are unable to “naturally” implement this kind of relationship because we seldom share the same space with other individuals in meaningful ways. In addition, because of our misguided priorities we usually do not have the time nor inclination for meaningful interchange with others.

Consider the average day for an average Christian:
1) You get up in the morning and go to work or school for approximately 8-9 hours. During that time you may briefly speak with someone about the weather or the economic crisis which affects all of our lives. Just when you and your “friend” begin to talk about something meaningful you realize that you are not doing the job you are paid to do, which is the only ethically correct thing to do, and so your interchange with this individual(s) is terminated.
2) You fight the traffic home (average of 30-60 minutes) and then proceed for the next 2-3 hours or so to greet family (if they are not out running to all four points of the globe), prepare and cook dinner, clean-up after dinner, and assuming you have gathered all the little chicks who share your last name under one roof, you then attempt to spend “quality time” together. This attempt at quality time will hopefully enable parents to remember their children’s first name instead of resorting to “hey you”. The children, in turn will hopefully be able to remember the reason why they should listen to and respect what these 2 older and quite alien adults are blathering on about.
3) Into this mix we must also figure in time for church, grocery shopping, family emergencies etc…, and if you have children time to attend all of the various functions associated with being a good parent. It is also important to remember that while you are out traversing the globe in order to meet your obligations, the individuals that you would like to take time to get to know and possibly influence, are out there doing the very same kind of things with all of the aforementioned time and space requirements. Time expended: approximately 2-3 hours per day.
4) Sleep requirements: approximately 7-8 hours per day (try not to laugh too hard).
5) Oh, then their is this need for us to occupy both time and space with our efforts (prayer and/or bible study) to establish and sustain a meaningful relationship with God. You might be tempted to say that this one is covered under going to church–nice try, God is not fooled even if you are. Time expended: you and God decide!

CAN YOU HEAR IT (THE BUZZER)? TIME HAS EXPIRED ON YOUR DAY!!!

Some of this may make you chuckle or make you mad, but I dare say that for the vast majority this is a fairly accurate description of the MONSTER who is eating up your life. It makes us to understand, or at least it should, what the writer of Ecclesiastes meant when he looked at his life (he was a king by the way) and uttered “Vanity, vanity all is vanity.” Uselessness, uselessness all is uselessness. He qualified this by stating that what he was considering when he uttered these words was all of the “things” which were “under the sun.” In other words, all those things which were pursuits of temporal things here on earth, in the end, became of little or no value.

Since we live on this earth, and must participate in many of these mundane activities as part of our daily life cycle, what can we do? I wish someone could lay this out in a step-by-step plan (that would be a daily planner worthy of being on the eternal best-sellers list), but it doesn’t work that way.
The only answer that I can see (brace yourself you probably are not going to like my solution) is to PRAY. Pray like Moses did as he was leading the children of Israel around in the Wilderness for 40 monotonous years. “Lord teach us to number our days that we might apply our hearts unto wisdom” Psalm 90:12. His use of the word “number” was not to ask God to teach them how to count and mark off each succeeding day like people sometimes do on a calendar when they X it off because they are desperately wanting the days to quickly pass by. Rather he was asking God to help them “find value,” God’s value, in all that they did even if it was only going around in circles for 40 years in a row. In finding value in each day they would then be able to apply their hearts to understanding God’s purpose in what they were doing and in understanding what God himself was doing in the world.

Please understand that my attempt here has not been to make light of a sobering responsibility given to us by Christ in the Great Commission. Rather, it is simply to give us another perspective about life and relationships (which seem sometimes to be the prize that is so unattainable), and to put it in a context wherein we are not always frustrated and discouraged because our resources are so completely inadequate in terms of fulfilling this great call of God upon our lives. He is our resource and the one who ultimately enables us to find value in all that we do. Remember God’s declaration through the prophet Zechariah, “not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit saith the Lord of hosts.” Zechariah 4:6. The might and power spoken of here is that which is generated and controlled by human ingenuity. It will always and utterly fail. God told Zerubbabel that His purposes can only be accomplished by and through His resources–the power and annointing of the Holy Spirit. His is to supply it (the resources), ours is to seek and then apply it as we “apply our hearts to wisdom or understanding.”

God Bless

February 26th, 2009 at 1:25 am

Sonny

I really appreciate these comments. I expected very little response to these questions because I realize they are hard to answer. We all have problems fulfilling the great commission. If we think we don’t we are deceiving ourselves. In answer to Bro L’s question back to me, I don’t feel like I am doing much of anything.

With my limited ability I do my best to teach two classes a week at church. I read the bible a lot, read all sorts of forums and blogs and try to interact with both christian and non christian to a degree. I pray. I will discuss God and the Kingdom with anybody at anytime. I write these blog articles and try to promote it and my brothers blogs also. (Mike, do you have a blog. If you don’t and have any time at all left over, you should. Your two posts so far are great)

But is this in any way really going out and making disciples? Is it still possible to even do that in the hustle and bustle of life in the good ole USA? (Read Mikes post above)

I am going to edit the post that I have ready for tomorrow to include a couple of more thoughts after reading these. Thanks to all of you and Mike, you really should blog.

Love you all

February 26th, 2009 at 1:55 am