Apr

Tuesday Town Hall 29…How Old Is The Earth?

Posted by: Sonny in Belief, Creation, Townhall Tuesday

tues-town-hal5l There has recently been a lot of discussion generated by my questions about the creation account. It has been fascinating and frustrating at the same time. Some find these things to be an unnecessary discussion and some see it as part of the mission. Personally, I just like to read the evidence that others have for their views. I don’t believe any of my main readers are experts in some of these things and I know I am not.

We can all learn something and we definitely need to know why we believe what we do. These discussions are not just to argue. They are to help all of us think. God gave us a brain and unfortunately very few seem to use it for the advancement of the Kingdom. Instead we seem to trust whatever persons views already line up with our own. I want to invite all to discuss the issue today. And I would especially like to hear form any who have a Background or training in these areas.

The last heavy discussions lead to some comments about the age of the earth.

How old do you think the earth is?

What evidence do you have for your answer?

How are you able to justify your dismissal of the other side?

And once again, does it really matter in the light of God’s grace and mercy in the reconciliation of mankind to Himself?

I also love the increase in commentary so if you are tired of reading and discussing these things, comment on some of the other posts that have largely went ignored.

Love you all

Tags: Creation, creation account, Discussion, God, Kingdom, Mercy, mission, Personal, town hall, Tuesday

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37 comments so far

Justin A

How old do you think the earth is?

About 6,000 years old.

What evidence do you have for your answer?

Genesis Chapter 5 gives an account of ages of the patriarchs starting with Adam and extending through Noah. The last two verses of chapter 9 give Noah’s age at the time of the flood. Genesis chapter 11 gives an account of the ages of the patriarchs from the flood until the time of Abram (Abraham). I have never heard anyone claim that Abraham lived millions of years ago, just a few thousand. You can add it up in 15 minutes. It all adds up to about 6,000 years.
There is plenty of evidence outside of the Bible that indicates that the scientific consensus of 14-15 billion years for the age of the universe is unsupportable by that evidence.

How are you able to justify your dismissal of the other side?

I don’t “dismiss” the other side. I believe the other side is wrong based on the evidence. I used to believe it was in the realm of possibility that the earth could be billions of years old. When faced with the reams of evidence to the contrary I changed my mind.

And once again, does it really matter in the light of God’s grace and mercy in the reconciliation of mankind to Himself?

Everything pales in comparison to the light of God’s grace and mercy. However, God said we were to study and to give evidence for our belief in Him. I think this issue is more critical than most because evolution and the old age of the earth is being taught to our children as fact. Many of them will recognize that the Bible and evolution and long ages for the earth are incompatible. With no evidence to the contrary many will be led astray and will discount the Bible.

April 28th, 2009 at 7:40 am

John

around 4 billion years old. i trust scientific data on this issue, i dont dismiss others views on this they are free to believe what ever they want too.

April 28th, 2009 at 4:09 pm

Heath

Question 1:

Not sure and don’t think it matters at all, but the best scientific evidence seems to suggest 4.5 billion years old. I am comfortable with that.

Question 2:

Most geologist tend to agree within a few hunderd million years on an age of the earth as established by the rock record and radiometric dating.

Question 3:

I tend not to discuss the issue if at all possible. (When I do discuss it, I find it usually leads to ugliness. Some Christians can be down right nasty of you don’t agree with them.) If pressed, I fall back to my standard answer that I am not sure and don’t think it matters. I don’t dismiss the young earth crowd, I just don’t agree with their understanding of scripture and science.

Question 4:

No.

April 28th, 2009 at 9:28 pm

Sonny

Heath: Question 3:I tend not to discuss the issue if at all possible. (When I do discuss it, I find it usually leads to ugliness. Some Christians can be down right nasty of you don’t agree with them.) If pressed, I fall back to my standard answer that I am not sure and don’t think it matters. I don’t dismiss the young earth crowd, I just don’t agree with their understanding of scripture and science.

Yeah. I am not sure if I should keep on asking this stuff. But I do believe there are some valid hypothesis to consider from a few points of view.

Keep them coming.

Love you all

April 28th, 2009 at 9:36 pm

Justin A

Does anyone know of any scripture that indicates that the earth is 4 or 5 billion years old?

April 28th, 2009 at 10:41 pm

Sonny

Justin A: Does anyone know of any scripture that indicates that the earth is 4 or 5 billion years old?

It is probably in one of the original manuscripts that we do not have. A young earth creationist scribe left it out of the KJV on purpose. Just wait till Dan Brown exposes this in his next book.

April 28th, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Chris

Justin: Here are a few examples to wet your appetite:

*Genesis 49:26
King James Bible
The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.

*Deuteronomy 33:15
King James Bible
And for the chief things of the ancient mountains, and for the precious things of the lasting hills,

*Habakkuk 3:6
King James Bible
He stood, and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow: his ways are everlasting.

*Genesis 2:1-4 (King James Version)
1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

-The critical point stating “These are the generations of the heavens and earth”

*The rest of Genesis 2, where God creates Adam and tells him to name all the animals, tend the garden, oh and has him sleep so that he can create Eve. That doesn’t sound like one day to me.

*The Sun is not depicted as having been made until day four (Genesis 1:14-19). Therefore `days’ 1-3 cannot be meant to be understood as ordinary solar days.

*Psalms 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

I don’t know if any of this indicates 4 or 5 billion, but certainly it discredits the 6,000 year belief that is pure fantasy.

*Here are the rest of the answers to many great questions:

1. How old do you think the earth is?
-Anywhere from a few hundred million to a few billion. That part is debatable, as we are not perfect beings. There is clear evidence of stuff being here before 6,000 years ago. Great societies of people were already out and about many thousands of years ago. At least 60,000 ago many people migrated from the African continent to other parts of the world. Who knows what the flood did to the geography of the planet?

2. What evidence do you have for your answer?
-Dinosaurs living and being fossilized. Yes it is also possible man could have live with dinosaurs, but very unlikely based on the evidence. Science seems to think so. The Bible puts days as endless or as a thousand years in many parts, but those parts must not be included in some Bibles, as you know it is all 100% literal.

3. How are you able to justify your dismissal of the other side?
-The other side has the free will and freedom to believe as it will. And as I stated in another post, maybe God just wanted to trick us by giving us all this evidence and then saying ha ha I got you good. God made the earth and everything else, and if God is in fact the creator, don’t you think he wanted his machine to work? It works and works great, but God is not here to trick us or deceive us, that is for Satan to do. Therefore, if the evidence points to older earth, then the evidence is most likely correct.

4. And once again, does it really matter in the light of God’s grace and mercy in the reconciliation of mankind to Himself?
-The answer is no. As much fun as it is discussing all this in the end the grace and mercy of God are all that matter.

Chris

April 28th, 2009 at 11:22 pm

Chris

“Everything pales in comparison to the light of God’s grace and mercy.However, God said we were to study and to give evidence for our belief in Him.I think this issue is more critical than most because evolution and the old age of the earth is being taught to our children as fact.Many of them will recognize that the Bible and evolution and long ages for the earth are incompatible.With no evidence to the contrary many will be led astray and will discount the Bible.”

*I do believe that the earth and universe is very old, however I do not believe in evolution as it is taught. These two subjects are not one in the same.

In all the histories I have read, I have never heard nor seen a monkey turn into a man. Monkeys and apes are still here so that can’t be true that they evolved into us.

On that point I agree completely with Justin. random mutation and evolution are great for books and movies, but pure fiction in reality.

You do not have to believe in both. Once again another way of looking at things, how interesting.

Love to all,

Chris

April 28th, 2009 at 11:27 pm

Sonny

Before you totally dismiss evolution meet Joe Lizzerd

And Tom Lepperd

Tom Lepperd

And this transitional animal was roaming my neighborhood the other day.

A transitional animal found down the street

Love you all

April 28th, 2009 at 11:42 pm

Chris

That is too funny , you can delete my post now that I see evolution in its finest.

Love you,

Chris

April 29th, 2009 at 12:05 am

Anthony

There is no way to truly know the answer to these questions. Believing what we want causes separation. I will have to go with God creation of earth includes all things. You have several different views of science that contradict each other when it comes to the age of the earth. Why does it matter to Christians. There should only be two valid issues: You and God, and Spreading the Faith. The things that require most thought either has no answer, or most people can’t understand. With that being the case, I think a lot of questions, though are fun to bring debates, should not be discussed to the general population.

April 29th, 2009 at 1:15 pm

Sonny

Anthony: The things that require most thought either has no answer, or most people can’t understand. With that being the case, I think a lot of questions, though are fun to bring debates, should not be discussed to the general population.

And again, I have to disagree. But thanks for continuing the discussion.

Love you all

April 29th, 2009 at 1:18 pm

Justin

Trying to keep it short.

Literal: 930 years old.

Not literal: everlasting hills

Why do you take non-literal as literal and literal as non-literal?

April 30th, 2009 at 10:01 pm

Chris

Justin:

I am sorry but what are you talking about?

You are taking things and putting your spin on it, which I guess is your thing.

I gave exact chunks from the Bible (King James Version) that were very clear. You have just chosen not to believe them, which either makes you a hypocrite or someone who just makes up stuff to get a rise out of others.

I can find many more examples of things in the Bible that will attest to the earth being ancient, old, everlasting, etc. All words that when defined do translate to old age. Literal? Learn some definitions and then come back and see me please.

I don’t know how old the earth is exactly, but I know it is far older than 6,000 years old. Sorry but the literal facts have proven that.

However, 4 to 5 billion might be a stretch as well.

Always fun, and always interesting. Have a great night, and God bless.

Chris

April 30th, 2009 at 10:19 pm

Sonny

Justin: Trying to keep it short.Literal:930 years old.Not literal:everlasting hillsWhy do you take non-literal as literal and literal as non-literal?

Maybe too short there. I don’t know what you are responding to.

Love you all

April 30th, 2009 at 10:27 pm

Chris

Sorry, but according to Genesis in the King James Version, if all is to be taken literally:

Noah built the ark about 4500 years ago.

All Civilizations, people, animals, etc. were wiped out in the flood. Correct? or is that part of the Bible you choose not to focus on because it goes against your “point”?

There are writings and drawings from civilizations that were around more than 4500 years ago. How did they survive? That is just weird.

In Genesis 8: 20 Noah is so elated by Being off the Ark that he takes one of the animals and offers up a burnt offering to God. If that was only one of two, did Noah cause an animal to become extinct?

Paper was invented and used in ancient Egypt around 3500 BC. Did that get wiped out as well since that occurred about 5500 years ago? I still see paper, I also know Egypt has had one continuous society since about this time.

Did you know humans began domesticating dogs about 7800 BC?

In 5500 BC Ancient China is in the early stages of farming. China is still around, how about that.

Also about 4500 BC Agriculture spreads from Greece into central Europe. Greece is still there as is central Europe.

All I am saying in all of this is pay attention to what God has put in front of you. And sticking to your guns on this issue really discredits any other topic you want to speak on. The Biblical evidence, the scientific evidence, and the historical evidence all discredit the 6,000 year old earth idea. I refuse to even call it a theory as there is no evidence to even back it up.

We did not as people even track time the same in the beginning. We had no written word, and we passed stories on from person to person. There were no means of keeping accurate data until at least the Babylonians, and even they were off a little.

You want literal, you got it. You also got factual, and logical.

I call it the trifecta of information. Just read Genesis, and you will get all the information you need. I actually re read it tonight just to gain some perspective.

Sorry, but this had to be said. Not meaning to offend, but I can’t let people just be mislead or even just disregard it.

If you believe God is eternal, what was he doing before 6,000 years ago? Just sitting somewhere twiddling his thumbs?

I know you have “read” many things, but so have I, and many many others who also believe what the Bible teaches us.

Have a great day to all.

April 30th, 2009 at 11:26 pm

Anthony

Chris and Justin,
Just something to make you think……

Do we have any clue how long Adam and Eve were in Eden?
Did Adam’s age begin from time created, or the time “sin/death” was introduced?
Was a day the same amount of time in Adam’s, Moses’, or Job’s day as it is today?
Was a year longer or shorter in reference to the calendar we use?
Does scientific dating have flaws?
Could the migrations of people to a different land be the separation of Pangea?
Could the fossilization of dinosaurs be a result of the pressure of a flood?
Is it possible that God said, “Let it be”, and everything was made as if it were billions of years old?
Is it possible God used a similar mold as to those of the monkey’s and ape’s?
Is there any belief of Creation that has been proven as more than theory?

Can translation be a large factor in debates of biblical documentation?
Example:
Gen 49:26
The blessings of your father are above the blessings of my offspring, to the limit of everlasting hills; may they be for the head of Joseph and for the crown of the leader of his brothers.

This passage from the Literal Translation of the Holy Bible doesn’t say there are everlasting hills but is a comparison made by a man (Jacob), to his sons.

Could it also be that someone in that time would think that the hills were everlasting?

Not to pick on you Chris. You’re the only one that used actual scripture.

Love you All

May 1st, 2009 at 5:39 am

Justin A

Chris,

I see you take the dates given for ancient civilizations as correct. I take the dates given in the Bible as correct.

I was reading just a few days ago that some of the older manuscripts of the Bible which had been accepted as 3rd or 4th century had just been re-dated as 1st or 2nd century. Do you trust the dates from last week or this week? The dates in the Bible haven’t changed. Men’s fallible dating methods change constantly. How do you know the dates you listed are true? When the scientists say tomorrow that they were wrong will you change with them?

Some of the young earth scientists decided to put the old earth dating methods to the test. Rocks are dated from the time that they cooled to a solid state from being in a molten state. They sent samples of rocks from Mt. St. Helens volcano eruption which were known to be 20 years old to some of the best labs available which believe the earth is old. The labs that you trust dated them at hundreds of thousands of years old. Some of the rocks were divided and parts of the same rock were sent to different labs. They returned vastly different ages for the same rocks. If they are that horribly wrong on rocks of known age why should we trust them for dates of rocks for which we don’t know the history?

May 1st, 2009 at 7:39 am

Chris

Once again using flawed science. I do not believe much of anything science puts out about the age of anything.

I use factual “historical” evidence. By the way 4500 years ago was about 2500 BC. Civilizations were here and continue to be here. Documented, and factual. Many civilizations did not coexist with others yet they were all there, and they were not destroyed in a worldwide flood. So something will have to change in the line of thinking to come to the conclusion that is closer to the truth.

The problem with trying to pinpoint the age of anything ancient is that the methods we use are flawed, and most likely not accurate, but that is on both sides of the argument. Disproving one does not prove the other. There is no way to tell how old the earth really is with our means, so to put 6,000 years or 5 billion years on it is kind of like throwing a rock into the ocean and stating that you hit the water. You can throw from one side of the ocean, and I can throw from the other. We will both hit the same ocean, but be nowhere near each other.

All that needs to be said here is that hey, maybe the time lines are not strict 24hour/365 day time frames, and most likely the world is somewhere in between the two.

I will say that I would beleive 60,000 years before I would believe 6,000. Now that may be something we can work with.

maybe both sides can get closer to correct without actually knowing.

None of us know, but we would possibly be closer.

Later,
Chris

May 1st, 2009 at 10:56 pm

Chris

Anthony,

That is sort of my point. To lock us into any one idea is that it really takes away from the whole point of the matter.

God!

God did what he did for his reasons, we just have to trust that following his teachings will lead us to the promised land.

So I am just as petty for continuing these discussions as anyone. I will say it has forced me to read the Bible a whole lot more than I used to do, and that at least is one positive of all of this.

Chris

May 1st, 2009 at 11:04 pm

Anthony

Chris,

I’ve come to realize the same thing. There are so many things we don’t account for, or even comprehend. Sonny says all the time that God is relational. He is, but that is one characteristic of many. My Bible says he is wrathful, jealous, loving, faithful, compassionate, forgiving, and the list goes on. Omnipotent and omniscient are two primary characteristics that we can’t comprehend, because we can’t relate personal experience to that. God is more than we can imagine. But there is a lot of him we understand and relate to. Too many times we try to put God on our level, and we can’t. All of these questions will be answered one day, but do you think we will care when we get to Glory.

Anthony

May 2nd, 2009 at 11:00 am

Sonny

Relational is so much more than a characteristic. All those characteristics you mentioned are simply a part of how He relates. For far too long we have looked at the supposedly incomprehensible attributes and given up on even trying to figure out our own roles int this relationship. This is how we come to the mistaken attitudes like, well if God wills it or He is in control, which by necessity give very little comfort or evidence to the skeptic or non-believer. Faith is fine for those that have it. But we need to see who God is by looking at Jesus, who came to reveal God to us, so we can then better relate to those around us who are lacking.

I do agree that there is a whole lot we cannot comprehend about such a majestic being as God. But we need to try a little harder than we do.

Great conversations going on here and I appreciate them.

Love you all

May 2nd, 2009 at 11:14 am

Heath

Chris,

Point of clarification for you. You asked, “In Genesis 8: 20 Noah is so elated by Being off the Ark that he takes one of the animals and offers up a burnt offering to God. If that was only one of two, did Noah cause an animal to become extinct?”

Actually, the bible records that Noah took a pair of every unclean animal and 7 pairs of the clean animals. Since the sacrifice would have been a clean animal, no such danger would have existed.

That being said, I still find the story of Noah to be historically unreliable on many other levels and believe it is much more likely to be allegorical in nature.

May 2nd, 2009 at 10:28 pm

Justin A

http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/could-god-have-created-in-six-days

website with a long discussion of six days creation and reasons for believing.

May 2nd, 2009 at 11:05 pm

Sonny

http://www.answersincreation.org/

For balance. Another view. I am not saying I endorse all of this either. It is actually more to show that there are other possible answers.

Love you all

May 2nd, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Heath

Hey Sonny,

Maybe we should all go down to Ken Ham’s Creation Museum, and then visit the Museum of Natural History in Washington DC and see who makes the more convincing argumnets based solely on the merits…

May 3rd, 2009 at 8:16 pm

Sonny

Road trip?

May 3rd, 2009 at 8:21 pm

Heath

BTW Sonny, thanks for the link. I find it very compelling reading.

Justin, yours, not so much. Was it written for kids or adults? (The cartoons threw me off…). Don’t worry about it Justin… I was just joking. I dismissed Ken Ham 15 years ago…

May 3rd, 2009 at 8:36 pm

Sonny

Yeah. I am still reading most of it when time permits.

May 3rd, 2009 at 8:41 pm

Anthony

Sonny: Relational is so much more than a characteristic.All those characteristics you mentioned are simply a part of how He relates.For far too long we have looked at the supposedly incomprehensible attributes and given up on even trying to figure out our own roles int this relationship.This is how we come to the mistaken attitudes like, well if God wills it or He is in control, which by necessity give very little comfort or evidence to the skeptic or non-believer.Faith is fine for those that have it.But we need to see who God is by looking at Jesus, who came to reveal God to us, so we can then better relate to those around us who are lacking.I do agree that there is a whole lot we cannot comprehend about such a majestic being as God.But we need to try a little harder than we do.Great conversations going on here and I appreciate them.Love you all

Sonny,

I agree that we as God’s people do not put forth effort to “establish” a relationship with God. I believe his will is in order. Not to say that it doesn’t take action by us to perform his will. Back to relational. You and I have a relationship. There are many things either of us do not know about each other. There are also many things that i can’t comprehend that you do, and vice-versa. Even though there are things we don’t understand about each other, or even how we can’t interpret about the other’s knowledge, we can still have a relationship. One as strong or weak as we choose. The difference is that God gave us the choice to love him, and to count on him. He’s there when we choose to be, and the only complications in that are the ones we cause. If I were to spit in your face, half kill you, or even completely disregard your existence, you will not care to have a relationship with me afterward. If you still would, is because of the relationship with God you have. Normally, even Christians, act and do the opposite as far as forgiveness and loving our neighbor. At times it is hard to understand how God could love us that much. At other times it is easy to understand. We as a people are conditional and we serve a God who is far from it.

Love you all,
Anthony

May 3rd, 2009 at 10:22 pm

Anthony

Heath: I still find the story of Noah to be historically unreliable on many other levels and believe it is much more likely to be allegorical in nature.

Heath,

In every religion I’ve done study on, or seen documentaries on, each have documentation of a great flood in their book of choice. Even tribes found that have been society’s outcast for centuries, have accounts of a great flood. Is it not possible for God to flood the earth? This is an account of God showing his wrath and jealousy to the world. I don’t know for sure either way. But I will lean toward the account being true. All parables mentioned in the bible are said to be parables prior to the story. The flood, Sodom & Gamorah, Creation, and God’s deliverance of his people (Moses) are not mentioned as those, even in literal translation. Here’s what bothers me. We take as fact the Roman accounts, and the Myans & Incas. We even go on to have faith in other historical documents that we’ve never seen, but when it comes to the Bible, we ask more questions about it and falsify it more than anything else. Is this right? We can ask questions all day long, but at the end of the day we are still standing in the same place as before. Ignorance…..

Love you all,
Anthony

May 3rd, 2009 at 10:34 pm

Heath

Anthony: Is it not possible for God to flood the earth?

It is indeed possible for God to flood the earth.

Anthony: This is an account of God showing his wrath and jealousy to the world.

I agree with you on wrath. But where does the text lead you to conclude the flood was a result of jealousy? Maybe you could argue that God numbered men’s days to 120 years as a result of jealousy, (perhaps frustration is a better defining quality for that event), but the flood account nowhere reflects God’s jealousy. It seems to me it is much more a reflection of remorse on God’s part. He is repentant of the course of action that has taken place and considering undoing it all. It is only the righteousness of Noah that stays His hand from complete destruction. So I would also argue that the account of Noah is as much about our responsibility to use our free will to live justly before God as it is about God and His actions of punishment.

Anthony: I don’t know for sure either way. But I will lean toward the account being true.

I also do not know for certain, and I hold no one is disregard for believing it is literally true. What I have a problem with is the attitude from some that those who do not accept it as a literal account are trying to tear it down. Given what we know about history and science, I am much more content with seeking the Truth of the account without basing my faith on the historicity of it. If others wish to, that is their choice. But their faith is no more valid, nor more certain, than my own.

Anthony: All parables mentioned in the bible are said to be parables prior to the story.

Really? According to whom? Does that mean that every passage that does not say, “This is a parable,” should be taken at face value? Hmm… seems to me that is a pretty big jump.

All I am really saying is that faith is not dependent upon historical proof of individual events in scripture. Most of them will never be proven one way or the other, so the facts of the events are irrelevant. What matters is the Truth lessons the stories provide, because the Truth is at the essence of what it means for something to be “The Word of the Lord.”

You put forth a false claim when you argue that we can ask questions all day long but will still be ignorant. Questions are at the very heart of knowledge. They are also at the heart of all faith. Without questions we do not have faith, we have dogma. Faith is a gift that is given to those who seek God with all their heart, soul, strength, and yes, even their mind. Questions are not the enemy of faith. To ask a question is the first step on a journey of faith. Luther was wrong when he declared that reason is the enemy of faith. Reason is the protector of faith.

There are those of us who reason that creation, Cain and Abel, the flood, the tower of Babel, the story of Job, the account of Jonah, and many other pericope’s in scripture may not be intended as historical truth but rather spiritual truth. And we are not seeking to falsify scripture. We are not seeking to deny Truth.

We are seeking to understand scripture for what it is and thereby come to a better understanding of the one true God.

May 4th, 2009 at 11:49 pm

Sonny

I know that I don’t feel I am wasting time or still ignorant by asking questions. I ask all of you a lot but this does not come close to how many I ask God. Without the answers He has so graciously provided I would still be floundering in unbelief or at least uncertain of who He is.

Love you all

May 5th, 2009 at 12:07 am

Anthony

Heath: I agree with you on wrath. But where does the text lead you to conclude the flood was a result of jealousy? Maybe you could argue that God numbered men’s days to 120 years as a result of jealousy, (perhaps frustration is a better defining quality for that event), but the flood account nowhere reflects God’s jealousy. It seems to me it is much more a reflection of remorse on God’s part. He is repentant of the course of action that has taken place and considering undoing it all. It is only the righteousness of Noah that stays His hand from complete destruction. So I would also argue that the account of Noah is as much about our responsibility to use our free will to live justly before God as it is about God and His actions of punishment.

If you read through Genesis chapter 6 where the Bible begins to show Noah, it says that the world is corrupt other than Noah. Corrupt would mean to me turned away from good (God), meddling in evil ways so good was a better evil, or what we would call straddling the fence.
If you go on to read through the Old Testament, Exodus 20:5; Exodus 34:14; Deuteronomy 4:24; just to keep it short says that God is a Jealous God. Not to mention in the Ten Commandments where God declares in Exodus 20:3 Thou shall not have any other gods before Me. If not for turning against God (becoming corrupt), why else would God do such a thing.

I can take from this that it was the first time, and God hasn’t done such a task again. I’m glad we have grace now. A jealous God could do such a thing with wrath and vengeance.

Anthony: All parables mentioned in the bible are said to be parables prior to the story.

This one I was seeing if someone would catch it. I don’t know if there are any other parables in the Bible. That doesn’t matter to me either way.

Anthony: We can ask questions all day long, but at the end of the day we are still standing in the same place as before. Ignorance…..

This one sounded a lot different in my head, I must have assume that everyone would like this to the comments in that post. My apologies. What that was meant to say is, there are some questions we can ask all day, but at the end of the day we are still standing in the same place as before…

As I’ve said before, there are many questions that we are not going to have an accurate answer to.

Heath: Questions are at the very heart of knowledge. They are also at the heart of all faith. Without questions we do not have faith, we have dogma. Faith is a gift that is given to those who seek God with all their heart, soul, strength, and yes, even their mind.

I do agree with some of this. Faith is much more than questions. Do you question if a chair is going to fall to the ground every time you sit in one? I know I don’t. I have to step back and look at this question often times. I have come to realize that during numerous times, I have put much more faith in a chair, than the very God that created all we know.

Heath: To ask a question is the first step on a journey of faith.

The questions used to find faith in God are questions about oneself, not questioning every word of what his word says. I’m still searching for the scripture where I’ve heard it said to question God. I haven’t found it yet. If it is there, I’m sure someone knows where and can point me there.
I feel asking God a question and questioning God are two completely different things.

Heath: Luther was wrong when he declared that reason is the enemy of faith. Reason is the protector of faith.

What is reason?

It seems reason is a series of questions brought about to come to a conclusion. If his statement is true, then questioning God is completely wrong. Which means, questioning his word is just as wrong.

Sonny: Without the answers He has so graciously provided I would still be floundering in unbelief or at least uncertain of who He is.

Before I begin, this is not any type of strike at Sonny. I believe Sonny to be a great man of God. I haven’t attempted to strike anyone, just curious about suggestions of knowledge.

I’ve known, read about, and studied many Godly people. Many have had very contradictory views on the same question and claim their answer was from God. I’m comfortable with my ignorance of answers to questions there is no proof to. I have faith in a God that many will say can’t be proven. I’m comfortable with that.

There are many things that I say I lean towards in my beliefs. Does that make me right, no. But I will be the first to tell you that I could be wrong. I don’t have the answers to the universe. I serve a God who does have those answers. Do I think he would give those answers to people, sure. Do I have faith that most put their predetermined mark on what God “tells them”? I sure do. Does everyone do this? I hope not. There are many answers to questions, but I can agree that most answers are possibilities to questions. I can’t assume any person is right. I can still go on with an acceptance that I am ignorant to a specified answer, when I serve a God of great possibilities.

Love you all,
Anthony

May 6th, 2009 at 8:13 am

Chris

Don’t know where this fits in. Maybe Sonny you can put the link up somewhere if you find it useful.

This a link that I found, and really enjoy, because it allows me to search out different sections of the Bible in many versions. Such as KJV, NIV, etc.

Here is the link if anyone is interested:

http://www.biblegateway.com/

Thanks

Chris

May 6th, 2009 at 11:40 am

Chris

Sorry I should check the links on the side better.

You can delete the last post if you wish.

Thanks

May 6th, 2009 at 11:44 am

Sonny

Thats alright. Many people don’t check the links but that is okay. At least they are reading the articles. A lot of those links are some of the places I find helpful or useful. Check out the other blogs sometimes, especially Hope Aflame and Esprit d’escalier.

Love you all

May 6th, 2009 at 12:30 pm