Comments on: Tuesday Town Hall 34…A Changing God http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/ Just a few things I want to say Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:24:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2876 Anthony Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:37:46 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2876 I understand trying to understand God and Jesus is what we should be doing. Understanding that we are not going to understand God in his fullness we are only human. It's ok for us to be ignorant about the answers we don't have. Striving to be what Christ was, are goals should be there. Focusing on the ultimate mission and our personal walk is far more important than answering the unanswerable questions. Anyone can try to understand God. Only those that choose to completely serve him can have a relationship as mentionable as those that are mentioned in the Bible. The best thing for us to understand, is though we may sway with our walk we do have a loving God that forgives when we are truly repentant. I understand trying to understand God and Jesus is what we should be doing. Understanding that we are not going to understand God in his fullness we are only human. It’s ok for us to be ignorant about the answers we don’t have. Striving to be what Christ was, are goals should be there. Focusing on the ultimate mission and our personal walk is far more important than answering the unanswerable questions. Anyone can try to understand God. Only those that choose to completely serve him can have a relationship as mentionable as those that are mentioned in the Bible. The best thing for us to understand, is though we may sway with our walk we do have a loving God that forgives when we are truly repentant.

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2874 Sonny Mon, 08 Jun 2009 16:48:50 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2874 No and that is not what I am presenting. But to not try to know Him as fully as we can is what most are doing today and look at where it has gotten us. Love you all No and that is not what I am presenting.

But to not try to know Him as fully as we can is what most are doing today and look at where it has gotten us.

Love you all

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2873 Anthony Mon, 08 Jun 2009 07:07:08 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2873 I believe he is relational and knowable with the combination of not being able to know him completely in our earthly bodies. Not until we are in our glorified bodies, can we fully know the God we serve, if we know everything about him then. First and foremost, Jesus is a physical representation of God. From there he becomes our resurrected savior. We all will do much better striving to live as Christ than understanding the fullness of God the Father. I'm not saying we don't have the questions of whether God is timeless or how old the earth actually is, and any other. I'm saying that when we have no proof of such answers without God's authority, we should not claim something to be fact, only a possibility. You can claim God told you something all you want, but we all have to make sure what we say God said is unbiased to what we believed prior to. "New Ager"? Really? When we focus on how we live and relate to Christ's life, we grow closer to God. Our faith becomes stronger because we live as Jesus challenged us. Because of our personal convictions and self spiritual evaluations we grow. By giving our lives to God, we grow. You will not find me focusing on what people claim to be "riches" scriptures. You will not find me focusing on the "well-being" scriptures. I understand that through my salvation I gain nothing on this earth other than the promise of life after death. I understand that God owes me nothing. I understand it is to him that I should exhaust my entire being to glorify. I even understand that no matter how many times I do good deeds, it is not by that that I make it to Heaven. Only Jesus' physical example can we example our lives. Other than the life he lived, we have no way to be anything like Christ. We can't be a God, so how do you expect to live like one. I'm going to say this again. How can we completely understand an eternal God? On this earth we can only truly understand what we are, or what we can be. I don't see being a God in any of our futures. There's no one that can mention that they have a complete understanding of anyone on this earth. I've never read a scripture where someone has said they have ever understood the completeness of God. I remember a tower that was destroyed for the people trying to build it to Heaven so they would make a mark for themselves. I also remember the stories of a man that could not bare to see the face of God because he would surely die, and could only see God's back. And then later remember reading that his face shined because God had been speaking to him. I believe the men of God like Moses, and David, and Solomon, realized that they wouldn't be able to understand God, and were aware that knowing God was more than any one of us could ask for. Do you think there has been anyone in the history of the earth that has had a complete understanding of God? I believe he is relational and knowable with the combination of not being able to know him completely in our earthly bodies. Not until we are in our glorified bodies, can we fully know the God we serve, if we know everything about him then. First and foremost, Jesus is a physical representation of God. From there he becomes our resurrected savior. We all will do much better striving to live as Christ than understanding the fullness of God the Father. I’m not saying we don’t have the questions of whether God is timeless or how old the earth actually is, and any other. I’m saying that when we have no proof of such answers without God’s authority, we should not claim something to be fact, only a possibility. You can claim God told you something all you want, but we all have to make sure what we say God said is unbiased to what we believed prior to. “New Ager”? Really? When we focus on how we live and relate to Christ’s life, we grow closer to God. Our faith becomes stronger because we live as Jesus challenged us. Because of our personal convictions and self spiritual evaluations we grow. By giving our lives to God, we grow. You will not find me focusing on what people claim to be “riches” scriptures. You will not find me focusing on the “well-being” scriptures. I understand that through my salvation I gain nothing on this earth other than the promise of life after death. I understand that God owes me nothing. I understand it is to him that I should exhaust my entire being to glorify. I even understand that no matter how many times I do good deeds, it is not by that that I make it to Heaven.

Only Jesus’ physical example can we example our lives. Other than the life he lived, we have no way to be anything like Christ. We can’t be a God, so how do you expect to live like one.

I’m going to say this again. How can we completely understand an eternal God? On this earth we can only truly understand what we are, or what we can be. I don’t see being a God in any of our futures. There’s no one that can mention that they have a complete understanding of anyone on this earth. I’ve never read a scripture where someone has said they have ever understood the completeness of God. I remember a tower that was destroyed for the people trying to build it to Heaven so they would make a mark for themselves. I also remember the stories of a man that could not bare to see the face of God because he would surely die, and could only see God’s back. And then later remember reading that his face shined because God had been speaking to him. I believe the men of God like Moses, and David, and Solomon, realized that they wouldn’t be able to understand God, and were aware that knowing God was more than any one of us could ask for. Do you think there has been anyone in the history of the earth that has had a complete understanding of God?

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2872 Sonny Mon, 08 Jun 2009 04:04:39 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2872 <blockquote cite="comment-2868"> <strong><a href="#comment-2868" rel="nofollow">Anthony</a></strong>: When we focus on who we are and not what God actually is, is when we grow closer to God. Not when we understand more of his completeness. If I’m not mistaken, Christianity is the focus on living as Christ, not the focus of understanding an eternal God. </blockquote> I must disagree again. The whole problem with a lot of Christians is that their focus is on themselves and not God. If we focus on who we are we find out nothing about God. This is one of the very real problems with a lot of religions and pseudo-spiritual movements in the world today, the focus on self. Are you a new ager in disguise? :) To live as Christ we must remember that Jesus is God no matter how hard that is to explain or understand and therefore our Christian focus is still about understanding an eternal God because without understanding, how can we become like Him? I believe you need to give this whole concept of knowing God and not being able to know Him a bit more thought. You honestly present the fact that you believe He is relational and knowable but at the same time not either one. It does have to be one or the other no matter how it is presented. Love you all

Anthony:
When we focus on who we are and not what God actually is, is when we grow closer to God. Not when we understand more of his completeness. If I’m not mistaken, Christianity is the focus on living as Christ, not the focus of understanding an eternal God.

I must disagree again. The whole problem with a lot of Christians is that their focus is on themselves and not God. If we focus on who we are we find out nothing about God. This is one of the very real problems with a lot of religions and pseudo-spiritual movements in the world today, the focus on self. Are you a new ager in disguise? :)

To live as Christ we must remember that Jesus is God no matter how hard that is to explain or understand and therefore our Christian focus is still about understanding an eternal God because without understanding, how can we become like Him?

I believe you need to give this whole concept of knowing God and not being able to know Him a bit more thought. You honestly present the fact that you believe He is relational and knowable but at the same time not either one. It does have to be one or the other no matter how it is presented.

Love you all

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2871 Anthony Mon, 08 Jun 2009 03:06:15 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2871 Heath, I've read your post on your blog about this topic. I understand now. I understand how you can't view God as unchanging. You view God as one form of relational. You are also relying on the fact that man is right all the time. I'm not trying to belittle you, but if you're going to take some scriptures that most view as rock solid as a metaphor then you can't take the rest as literal. We have to take a stand one way or another. There's no way around it. God can be relational and unchanging and timeless all at the same time. God can be just relational, or just timeless, which would include unchanging. God can be many things that we don't have rock solid evidence to prove wrong. That's the way it goes. Do you believe God is a God of possibilities? P.S. Do you mind if Sonny gives me your personal email? I want to send you something just don't want to put it up here. Heath,
I’ve read your post on your blog about this topic. I understand now. I understand how you can’t view God as unchanging. You view God as one form of relational. You are also relying on the fact that man is right all the time. I’m not trying to belittle you, but if you’re going to take some scriptures that most view as rock solid as a metaphor then you can’t take the rest as literal. We have to take a stand one way or another. There’s no way around it. God can be relational and unchanging and timeless all at the same time. God can be just relational, or just timeless, which would include unchanging. God can be many things that we don’t have rock solid evidence to prove wrong. That’s the way it goes. Do you believe God is a God of possibilities?

P.S. Do you mind if Sonny gives me your personal email? I want to send you something just don’t want to put it up here.

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2870 Anthony Mon, 08 Jun 2009 02:44:22 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2870 This scripture and the ones around it are referring to the Trinity. We have... God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three in One, but yet each are different. Other than the reference to the Holy Spirit there is no other mention of God as a spirit. Jesus is the human carnation of God, The Holy Ghost is the spirit form of God, and God the Father is the ultimate being. Is God the Father a Spirit? This scripture and the ones around it are referring to the Trinity. We have… God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Three in One, but yet each are different. Other than the reference to the Holy Spirit there is no other mention of God as a spirit. Jesus is the human carnation of God, The Holy Ghost is the spirit form of God, and God the Father is the ultimate being. Is God the Father a Spirit?

]]> By: Heath http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2869 Heath Mon, 08 Jun 2009 00:59:39 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2869 <blockquote cite="comment-2868"> <strong><a href="#comment-2868" rel="nofollow">Anthony</a></strong>: I’m glad you caught the flesh statement. I’m also glad you said God’s spirit. Where in the Bible does it say God is a spirit? </blockquote> John 4:24 - God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

Anthony: I’m glad you caught the flesh statement. I’m also glad you said God’s spirit. Where in the Bible does it say God is a spirit?

John 4:24 – God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2868 Anthony Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:35:52 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2868 <blockquote cite="comment-2866"> <strong><a href="#comment-2866" rel="nofollow">Sonny</a></strong>: I disagree with both of these statements.My flesh wants nothing of God.It is my spirit that desires to know and understand His Spirit.All questions matter to God or why would He let us know to ask for wisdom and it will be given.Faith has to do with trust and all questions, especially those I ask, have nothing to do with mistrust or unfaithfulness.Instead they are part of a continual search to know and align my will with His.Gods Kingdom come and His will be done drives me more than anything else.Thanks for the discussion.Love you all </blockquote> I'm glad you caught the flesh statement. I'm also glad you said God's spirit. Where in the Bible does it say God is a spirit? There is the Holy Spirit, which we all can understand. The Holy Spirit is with us to guide us. Our spiritual relationship still does not require that we understand God's completeness. Do you think when you ask for wisdom that we get the knowledge of all of God? Back to questions that try to explain God. We all still have biased opinions about what God is. If we say God told us something, how many times do we hear the same answer or very similar answer to the one we had before? That's where we are biased. We only hear from God what we want to hear. When we focus on who we are and not what God actually is, is when we grow closer to God. Not when we understand more of his completeness. If I'm not mistaken, Christianity is the focus on living as Christ, not the focus of understanding an eternal God. I do remember a scripture that Christ said, "Only my father knows the day that the trumpet will sound." How do we expect to have all the answers about God, when Christ himself didn't know all that God the Father does?

Sonny:
I disagree with both of these statements.My flesh wants nothing of God.It is my spirit that desires to know and understand His Spirit.All questions matter to God or why would He let us know to ask for wisdom and it will be given.Faith has to do with trust and all questions, especially those I ask, have nothing to do with mistrust or unfaithfulness.Instead they are part of a continual search to know and align my will with His.Gods Kingdom come and His will be done drives me more than anything else.Thanks for the discussion.Love you all

I’m glad you caught the flesh statement. I’m also glad you said God’s spirit. Where in the Bible does it say God is a spirit? There is the Holy Spirit, which we all can understand. The Holy Spirit is with us to guide us. Our spiritual relationship still does not require that we understand God’s completeness. Do you think when you ask for wisdom that we get the knowledge of all of God?

Back to questions that try to explain God. We all still have biased opinions about what God is. If we say God told us something, how many times do we hear the same answer or very similar answer to the one we had before? That’s where we are biased. We only hear from God what we want to hear. When we focus on who we are and not what God actually is, is when we grow closer to God. Not when we understand more of his completeness. If I’m not mistaken, Christianity is the focus on living as Christ, not the focus of understanding an eternal God. I do remember a scripture that Christ said, “Only my father knows the day that the trumpet will sound.” How do we expect to have all the answers about God, when Christ himself didn’t know all that God the Father does?

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2866 Sonny Sun, 07 Jun 2009 14:55:38 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2866 <blockquote cite="comment-2863"> <strong><a href="#comment-2863" rel="nofollow">Anthony</a></strong>: It is our flesh that desires the answers to those questions we can’t understand. Because of the faithfulness we should have in God, these questions wouldn’t matter if we completely trusted him. </blockquote> I disagree with both of these statements. My flesh wants nothing of God. It is my spirit that desires to know and understand His Spirit. All questions matter to God or why would He let us know to ask for wisdom and it will be given. Faith has to do with trust and all questions, especially those I ask, have nothing to do with mistrust or unfaithfulness. Instead they are part of a continual search to know and align my will with His. Gods Kingdom come and His will be done drives me more than anything else. Thanks for the discussion. Love you all

Anthony: It is our flesh that desires the answers to those questions we can’t understand. Because of the faithfulness we should have in God, these questions wouldn’t matter if we completely trusted him.

I disagree with both of these statements. My flesh wants nothing of God. It is my spirit that desires to know and understand His Spirit.

All questions matter to God or why would He let us know to ask for wisdom and it will be given. Faith has to do with trust and all questions, especially those I ask, have nothing to do with mistrust or unfaithfulness. Instead they are part of a continual search to know and align my will with His.

Gods Kingdom come and His will be done drives me more than anything else.

Thanks for the discussion.

Love you all

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/02/tuesday-town-hall-34%e2%80%a6a-changing-god/comment-page-1/#comment-2863 Anthony Sun, 07 Jun 2009 07:21:02 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1472#comment-2863 What I mean by the assumptions and possibilities statement is this... If we are seeking the whole truth and are spreading the truth, then we can't go around saying one thing is what we believe without acknowledging the other possibilities. If we tell someone what we feel to be the truth, and they believe that, and our belief is in fact not the truth....where does that leave us with the ignorant lies told? Would that be classified as a lie? If we can't at least give a breakdown of the other possibilities while discussing our beliefs, why even tell someone what we think? On certain topics the best answer we can give is either I don't know, or here's all the possibilities I know of right now and list them. That answer should be unbiased. Too often times we put more on what we think than what we know. That is where we are wrong. Relationship: Does a spiritual relationship require complete understanding? Does a spiritual relationship require the possibility of complete understanding? We really don't have any proof to completely understanding God. Hence the questions with many possibilities. With any relationship we have on this earth, with other humans, there is always a possibility of completely understanding someone. This includes their ways of thinking, their work, their....well....life. This is very rare if nonexistent, but sure its a possibility. I've never come across anyone I completely understand. Can any of us say we have? I don't think so, but then again...possible. Why do we expect to understand the complete physical representation of God, when most of us will never understand our spouses, sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers? Spiritually we can understand God. I really don't see a completeness here, since we are all continuously growing, and we can only get closer. It is our flesh that desires the answers to those questions we can't understand. Because of the faithfulness we should have in God, these questions wouldn't matter if we completely trusted him. In all the wisdom Solomon had, did he know God in his completeness or just know how to answer the questions or pride and doubt bring? I'm sure there are more reasons to ask questions about God, but these two stick out more to me than any. I think I've answered my own question. In our physical presence we can't completely understand God. In our spiritual relationship, we can at the point of complete trust; and as we know our spiritual beings are focused on serving, praise, worship, adoration, and so forth and so on; we can still only understand what God would allow. I can accurately say this and hope no one gets offended. I have not met a person yet that has complete trust in God. In every person I've met, I've seen doubt in a problem's resolution in some form. What I mean by the assumptions and possibilities statement is this… If we are seeking the whole truth and are spreading the truth, then we can’t go around saying one thing is what we believe without acknowledging the other possibilities. If we tell someone what we feel to be the truth, and they believe that, and our belief is in fact not the truth….where does that leave us with the ignorant lies told? Would that be classified as a lie? If we can’t at least give a breakdown of the other possibilities while discussing our beliefs, why even tell someone what we think? On certain topics the best answer we can give is either I don’t know, or here’s all the possibilities I know of right now and list them. That answer should be unbiased. Too often times we put more on what we think than what we know. That is where we are wrong.

Relationship: Does a spiritual relationship require complete understanding? Does a spiritual relationship require the possibility of complete understanding? We really don’t have any proof to completely understanding God. Hence the questions with many possibilities. With any relationship we have on this earth, with other humans, there is always a possibility of completely understanding someone. This includes their ways of thinking, their work, their….well….life. This is very rare if nonexistent, but sure its a possibility. I’ve never come across anyone I completely understand. Can any of us say we have? I don’t think so, but then again…possible. Why do we expect to understand the complete physical representation of God, when most of us will never understand our spouses, sons, daughters, mothers, and fathers?

Spiritually we can understand God. I really don’t see a completeness here, since we are all continuously growing, and we can only get closer. It is our flesh that desires the answers to those questions we can’t understand. Because of the faithfulness we should have in God, these questions wouldn’t matter if we completely trusted him. In all the wisdom Solomon had, did he know God in his completeness or just know how to answer the questions or pride and doubt bring? I’m sure there are more reasons to ask questions about God, but these two stick out more to me than any.

I think I’ve answered my own question. In our physical presence we can’t completely understand God. In our spiritual relationship, we can at the point of complete trust; and as we know our spiritual beings are focused on serving, praise, worship, adoration, and so forth and so on; we can still only understand what God would allow.

I can accurately say this and hope no one gets offended. I have not met a person yet that has complete trust in God. In every person I’ve met, I’ve seen doubt in a problem’s resolution in some form.

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