Comments on: A Sacred Charge http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/ Just a few things I want to say Mon, 13 Dec 2010 21:24:23 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-3418 Sonny Sun, 30 Aug 2009 22:02:54 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-3418 Thanks for the comments Nancy Love you Thanks for the comments Nancy

Love you

]]> By: Nancy Massey http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-3411 Nancy Massey Fri, 28 Aug 2009 17:11:05 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-3411 I'm not up to speed with all the previous comments or blogs but I do want to respond to this one in particular. A pound of potatoes and a pound of potato chips are still the same weight but the cubic measure of them is not the same. The nutrition level is not the same. The flavor is not the same. I feel that individual growth is this way. Just because the growth or fruit may be the same in weight it is not always equal in quantity. We have so many areas in our lives that we grow (or refuse to grow) as Tammy said we don't want to be looked at too closely ourselves so we may only glance at others. Accountability is a scarry word for some people that is why it is so difficult to pin point certaon views. I don't think that I judge people however I do judge the quality (or my opinion of the quality) of their fruit. Is it acceptable-Grade A or is it second rate or is it Cull grade. If we were talking about potatoes here the value would be very much different so why do we think God's scale is so different (beside the fact that He is the ultimate fruit inspector). He doesn't see any of us as a cull however He does see the intent of our heart-if we only give minimal effort we set the bar for our harvest-if we give our all to the best of our ability even if it doesn't measure up God's grace makes up the difference. If most people spent as much effort being cultivators of their own fruit as they do being fruit inspectors in other peoples garden the harvest for the kingdom would be Grade A across the board, then we could as a church, a body, a people have something to offer the ones who are lost and starving for sincere relationships. Looking honestly at ourself and the fruit we bear would, I dare to say change the way we look at others. When we are observing others it may not be our responsability to say anything to them at the moment but we should pray for them always. Ask yourself this question--What do people see when they are looking at me? This question applies at home, church, Wal-Mart, ball game, traffic jam, theatre, restaurant. Now what does God see? Having a fish emblem on my car making me a christian makes about as much sence as having a Bible making me a biblical scolar. I have seen people with christian t-shirts behaving very un Christ like just as Sonny saw the man with a fish emblem behaving like a ....well we will just say non christian. I don't think it is so bad to call things as we see them as long as we pray the way Jesus did I am willing to stick my neck out here and say that everyone that calles themself a member of the human race is but alot of people that call themself a christian really don't understand the definition of the word. Love ya :bf5: , Nancy I’m not up to speed with all the previous comments or blogs but I do want to respond to this one in particular. A pound of potatoes and a pound of potato chips are still the same weight but the cubic measure of them is not the same. The nutrition level is not the same. The flavor is not the same. I feel that individual growth is this way. Just because the growth or fruit may be the same in weight it is not always equal in quantity. We have so many areas in our lives that we grow (or refuse to grow) as Tammy said we don’t want to be looked at too closely ourselves so we may only glance at others. Accountability is a scarry word for some people that is why it is so difficult to pin point certaon views. I don’t think that I judge people however I do judge the quality (or my opinion of the quality) of their fruit. Is it acceptable-Grade A or is it second rate or is it Cull grade. If we were talking about potatoes here the value would be very much different so why do we think God’s scale is so different (beside the fact that He is the ultimate fruit inspector). He doesn’t see any of us as a cull however He does see the intent of our heart-if we only give minimal effort we set the bar for our harvest-if we give our all to the best of our ability even if it doesn’t measure up God’s grace makes up the difference. If most people spent as much effort being cultivators of their own fruit as they do being fruit inspectors in other peoples garden the harvest for the kingdom would be Grade A across the board, then we could as a church, a body, a people have something to offer the ones who are lost and starving for sincere relationships. Looking honestly at ourself and the fruit we bear would, I dare to say change the way we look at others. When we are observing others it may not be our responsability to say anything to them at the moment but we should pray for them always. Ask yourself this question–What do people see when they are looking at me? This question applies at home, church, Wal-Mart, ball game, traffic jam, theatre, restaurant. Now what does God see?

Having a fish emblem on my car making me a christian makes about as much sence as having a Bible making me a biblical scolar. I have seen people with christian t-shirts behaving very un Christ like just as Sonny saw the man with a fish emblem behaving like a ….well we will just say non christian. I don’t think it is so bad to call things as we see them as long as we pray the way Jesus did
I am willing to stick my neck out here and say that everyone that calles themself a member of the human race is but alot of people that call themself a christian really don’t understand the definition of the word.

Love ya :bf5: ,

Nancy

]]> By: Tammy http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-3043 Tammy Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:18:24 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-3043 Matthew 7:17 Jesus says Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. v. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them I think the problem is that we do not want anyone to inspect our fruits very closely for fear that they will see the bruises, or rotten places in us. Therefore, we avoid inspecting others. If we are not constantly striving to grow, what are we supposed to strive for? How many times have you pointed out a negative to someone only to have them point out your faults? The issue is how we measure them, how we approach them and how we edify them as opposed to ridicule, attack or demeaning them. T Matthew 7:17
Jesus says
Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.

v. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them

I think the problem is that we do not want anyone to inspect our fruits very closely for fear that they will see the bruises, or rotten places in us. Therefore, we avoid inspecting others.

If we are not constantly striving to grow, what are we supposed to strive for?

How many times have you pointed out a negative to someone only to have them point out your faults? The issue is how we measure them, how we approach them and how we edify them as opposed to ridicule, attack or demeaning them.

T

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-2969 Sonny Tue, 23 Jun 2009 05:19:05 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-2969 I appreciate all the responses but still believe that we must measure growth to determine our own response to those we should be discipleing. Maybe no one is discipleing anyone cause no one dares to or knows how to measure anything. I will agree, as I believe I have already stated, that we can not scientifically quantify spiritual growth but if we love people we can determine whether and to what degree they are growing. Will we know the ultimate eternal level of anyone's spirituality, no. But what some are calling observation, I call it measuring. You may not see it as the same, but it is. As a former teacher of spiritual things, I know first hand who grew and who did not and also whether one grew more than another. I never made it my business to determine levels for any reason except to determine how and what needed teaching. To do otherwise is to waste time. I am sorry that I must not be getting through or either many of you do not think any of this is necessary. It is probably one of the things that is wrong with American Christianity. But thanks for the input. Love you all I appreciate all the responses but still believe that we must measure growth to determine our own response to those we should be discipleing. Maybe no one is discipleing anyone cause no one dares to or knows how to measure anything.

I will agree, as I believe I have already stated, that we can not scientifically quantify spiritual growth but if we love people we can determine whether and to what degree they are growing. Will we know the ultimate eternal level of anyone’s spirituality, no. But what some are calling observation, I call it measuring. You may not see it as the same, but it is.

As a former teacher of spiritual things, I know first hand who grew and who did not and also whether one grew more than another. I never made it my business to determine levels for any reason except to determine how and what needed teaching. To do otherwise is to waste time.

I am sorry that I must not be getting through or either many of you do not think any of this is necessary. It is probably one of the things that is wrong with American Christianity.

But thanks for the input.

Love you all

]]> By: Chris http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-2966 Chris Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:01:18 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-2966 Joh 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” *To know something is not necessarily to measure it or quantify it. We do not have the tools to measure as you say. God does and Jesus does. We are like the laymen who listen to the scientists who give us information. We choose to believe the information or not, but we can't just go out and measure. We just do not have the means. Love is the key, and it is clearly not measurable, even if love songs or people try to find ways to do it. The only thing that can be quantified is God's endless or infinite love for us. But that is also told to us and we choose to have faith in the "data"* 2Th 1:3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing. *Once again growth can be seen, but not measured. growing in spirit and love are very visible in many, but not always in others. The quiet Christian may show all the qualities of the loud outgoing one, but others might judge them differently. God can quantify, not us. We can see the results of God's work all around us, and it is wonderful. We should help others, and ourselves, but we cannot truly "measure" Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; *Sure these are all characteristics observable in others, but there is no formula or combination of traits that can be measured as higher or lower than another. As another posted these traits can be seen in a non Christian as well, and in some cases it shows even more, because there is less judgment on those individuals. Sorry to disagree Sonny, but You are on the right track, but looking in the wrong direction. We can always get better at something, but trying measure it almost takes the true value and hard work away from it. Love you, Chris Joh 13:35 By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”

*To know something is not necessarily to measure it or quantify it. We do not have the tools to measure as you say. God does and Jesus does. We are like the laymen who listen to the scientists who give us information. We choose to believe the information or not, but we can’t just go out and measure. We just do not have the means.

Love is the key, and it is clearly not measurable, even if love songs or people try to find ways to do it. The only thing that can be quantified is God’s endless or infinite love for us. But that is also told to us and we choose to have faith in the “data”*

2Th 1:3 We ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers, as is right, because your faith is growing abundantly, and the love of every one of you for one another is increasing.

*Once again growth can be seen, but not measured. growing in spirit and love are very visible in many, but not always in others. The quiet Christian may show all the qualities of the loud outgoing one, but others might judge them differently. God can quantify, not us. We can see the results of God’s work all around us, and it is wonderful. We should help others, and ourselves, but we cannot truly “measure”

Gal 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control;

*Sure these are all characteristics observable in others, but there is no formula or combination of traits that can be measured as higher or lower than another. As another posted these traits can be seen in a non Christian as well, and in some cases it shows even more, because there is less judgment on those individuals.

Sorry to disagree Sonny, but You are on the right track, but looking in the wrong direction. We can always get better at something, but trying measure it almost takes the true value and hard work away from it.

Love you,

Chris

]]> By: Sonny http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-2945 Sonny Thu, 18 Jun 2009 14:55:33 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-2945 Don't take this wrong but, I have been trying to understand what you are saying from the start. It seems sometimes you lack consistency or either I lack in the comprehension department. You start by telling me now that you agree with me but you take the opposite side for discussion sake and then go on to tell me how wrong I am about those scriptures. Then finally, you tell me to not come back with a divided response and that everything you said the other day is not confusing and I should try to understand you better with the inference that then I might actually get it. I am sorry that I am not at the level of most people. I am just a simple man trying to come to some level of maturity myself. I have and will admit when I realize I am wrong. Anthony, I love you, but you are not allowing me to have a great conversation about God because you do seem intent on taking the opposite side no matter that yet you tell me we agree. Something does not line up. John took an opposing side the other day because he opposes my view. He stood by it until the end. I also know that if I finally get my point across he even admits sometimes he did not see what I was saying and comes around a little bit. As I think back to your responses, you never have. If you do not see these scriptures as actual ways to gauge someones spiritual growth then fine, we don't need to say anything more about it. Thanks for the attempting a discussion but is that what it really is to you? Love you all Don’t take this wrong but, I have been trying to understand what you are saying from the start. It seems sometimes you lack consistency or either I lack in the comprehension department.

You start by telling me now that you agree with me but you take the opposite side for discussion sake and then go on to tell me how wrong I am about those scriptures. Then finally, you tell me to not come back with a divided response and that everything you said the other day is not confusing and I should try to understand you better with the inference that then I might actually get it. I am sorry that I am not at the level of most people. I am just a simple man trying to come to some level of maturity myself. I have and will admit when I realize I am wrong.

Anthony, I love you, but you are not allowing me to have a great conversation about God because you do seem intent on taking the opposite side no matter that yet you tell me we agree. Something does not line up.

John took an opposing side the other day because he opposes my view. He stood by it until the end. I also know that if I finally get my point across he even admits sometimes he did not see what I was saying and comes around a little bit. As I think back to your responses, you never have.

If you do not see these scriptures as actual ways to gauge someones spiritual growth then fine, we don’t need to say anything more about it.

Thanks for the attempting a discussion but is that what it really is to you?

Love you all

]]> By: Anthony http://sonnycable.com/2009/06/18/a-sacred-charge/comment-page-1/#comment-2941 Anthony Thu, 18 Jun 2009 07:28:57 +0000 http://sonnycable.com/?p=1498#comment-2941 As I have said, I agree with you. We can see spiritual growth to a degree. I'm taking the opposite interpretation for discussion sake. When the mention of Jesus' sheep comes to mind, it is said that his sheep know his voice. Knowing his voice has nothing to do with knowing if a black sheep is present. Some people can view someone as just or unjust by God's knowledge and wisdom being sent to them for a purpose. There is a point in our walk with Christ that we become the disciples mentioned here. Most aren't, or at least most that share the same lazy faith that we do here in the states does. Discipleship is much more than just going through what the everyday "believer" does. Discipleship is the willful following of Christ and his mission. Discipleship is tell all we meet about our loving Savior. Discipleship is commitment to a walk as Jesus gave, not just acknowledging that Jesus did it and not applying it to our own. The scriptures listed above does not show examples of spiritual growth to other people for the "everyday" Christian. Only the first mentions anything of this growth, but only to the evidence of Christ. The second is only a mention of faith increasing, and the proof that the growth had been heard of in reference to the growth of the church. Did Paul have the gift of wisdom, knowledge, or discernment? With any of the 3, God could have shared with Paul the actual spiritual growth. Or it could have been that any belief in Christ was seen at that time, because Christ was recent. Look to today. Do we see the other gifts at hand as we live? Not usually. And with the last scripture, good people are abiding by this every day that do not hold faith in the Creator, King of kings, Lord of lords, the I AM, or the ultimate Savior. Though these aren't the actual gifts of the Spirit as mentioned above, they still seem to coincide with what is listed there. Don't come back with the divided response. In the last post, with the point of view given, everything I said went together without confusing everyone else. Bring more than a counter. Try to understand why people say what they do before responding, this includes myself at times, because I know I don't. From here lets go to great conversation of God, instead of the great debate we see all around us. As I have said, I agree with you. We can see spiritual growth to a degree. I’m taking the opposite interpretation for discussion sake. When the mention of Jesus’ sheep comes to mind, it is said that his sheep know his voice. Knowing his voice has nothing to do with knowing if a black sheep is present. Some people can view someone as just or unjust by God’s knowledge and wisdom being sent to them for a purpose. There is a point in our walk with Christ that we become the disciples mentioned here. Most aren’t, or at least most that share the same lazy faith that we do here in the states does.

Discipleship is much more than just going through what the everyday “believer” does. Discipleship is the willful following of Christ and his mission. Discipleship is tell all we meet about our loving Savior. Discipleship is commitment to a walk as Jesus gave, not just acknowledging that Jesus did it and not applying it to our own.

The scriptures listed above does not show examples of spiritual growth to other people for the “everyday” Christian. Only the first mentions anything of this growth, but only to the evidence of Christ.

The second is only a mention of faith increasing, and the proof that the growth had been heard of in reference to the growth of the church. Did Paul have the gift of wisdom, knowledge, or discernment? With any of the 3, God could have shared with Paul the actual spiritual growth. Or it could have been that any belief in Christ was seen at that time, because Christ was recent. Look to today. Do we see the other gifts at hand as we live? Not usually.

And with the last scripture, good people are abiding by this every day that do not hold faith in the Creator, King of kings, Lord of lords, the I AM, or the ultimate Savior. Though these aren’t the actual gifts of the Spirit as mentioned above, they still seem to coincide with what is listed there.

Don’t come back with the divided response. In the last post, with the point of view given, everything I said went together without confusing everyone else. Bring more than a counter. Try to understand why people say what they do before responding, this includes myself at times, because I know I don’t. From here lets go to great conversation of God, instead of the great debate we see all around us.

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