A couple of days ago I asked some questions about alcohol and whether the bible condemns all consumption of it as sin.  On the face of this it seems pretty certain that it is not.  Any casual reader of the stories of Jesus would recognize the fact that His first recorded miracle was turning water into wine.  And there are other direct references of His very own consumption of it.  Yet I have read and heard many arguments about it being sin.

There are those that will use all kind of pretty far out excuses to say that this is not really saying what we think.  The scripture is not saying what it seems to say.  Grape juice?  Really?  Are we to believe that God is just trying His best to confuse us?

There are those that, in the past and probably still today, say that it is even wrong for a Christian to serve or sell alcohol.  Again, I point to Christ’s first miracle.  If I should not serve or sell it then why in the world would Jesus turn water into it?  We seem to still have tremendous problems with self-righteousness.

These thoughts and questions are not really the reason I raised this question though.  For some very thoughtful, adult insights about the consumption argument in general, please read Tuesdays post and comments.  Everyone who responded made points I not only believe to be correct but I hold to them myself.  And I especially think that when you vow or commit to something as Heath and Jason did as ministers, then you should adhere to those commitments like they pointed out that they did.

If the organization you join says you have to stand on one foot for 30 seconds and face east at 8:00 am every third Tuesday and you agree, then you must do it whether it makes sense or not, if you are a person of integrity.  The health and danger issues are also valid reasons why not drinking makes sense, and the witness in a culture that definitely glorifies alcohol as the means to get drunk is not one the Kingdom really needs.  I don’t drink myself for some of these reasons.

As I stated though, I brought it all up for the same reason I have brought up other things recently.  If we spent as much time as some do on defending these obviously unbiblical beliefs such as drinking being sin, with as much zeal and commitment, in reaching out to those outside the Kingdom, we could really glorify God. Instead we waste tremendous amounts of time on our own legalistic views and arguments.

Alcohol is only one small part of a whole host of things that some Christians seem to want to focus on in spite of the fact that they have a mission to do.  Appearances are important as some believe when talking about drinking, but what about the appearance of condemnation we portray that is not even biblically justified.  When the lost of this world see us bickering and fighting and even bringing the charge of heresy against a minister that obviously is not heretical, what do they think?  I will tell you what they think because it was not that long ago that I thought it.  They think that there is no God.  And if there is He is not that big, not that great, and not that powerful because His whole family is so hypocritical and unloving of even each other.

We must reach out in love to a lost and dying world and to do that we have got to stop adding our own lists of sins to Gods.  That is what Jesus condemned about the Pharisees and the bible even warns us about adding to His word, but we just don’t seem to get it.  This world of lost souls is not concerned about our petty arguments and disagreements about alcohol, about divorce, about creation, about (dare I say it) initial evidence.  What this worlds lost souls are concerned about, whether they even know it or not, is the eternal destination of their very being.  And even if they are not concerned, we must be.

As I said on my post about creation recently, let’s stop all the arguing about pet doctrines and interpretations in front of the kids, so to speak, and wait until we get behind closed doors.

Love you all

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect. Rom 12:1-2

My pastor used the text from Romans quoted above for his sermon this morning.  He focused on how a lot of us have not had our minds transformed.  Then I watched a video on Shannon’s site and read the comments there concerning homosexuality and how we react to this sin in ways that are very different from the ways we react to other sins.  (Another free plug, Shannon)

I agree with my pastor’s sermon this morning and I also agree with much of what was said on Shannon’s blog but I still have problems with all of this.

God did not make any of us the way we are.  We all come into the world through the act of procreation and not creation.  God stopped creating after He finished up the sixth day and then He has placed the rest mostly in our hands.  He still, I believe, steps in and works in this realm at times but it is mostly up to us.  We choose to be, do, say, and act out of who we are; which is a reflection of many things such as environment, how we were raised, the attitudes of our parents, culture, education, and lots of other things.  We live in a fallen creation and start out as slaves to sin.  This cannot be denied.

We need to learn to love.  We need to practice love.  We need to embrace each other as Christ embraced us.  And that includes homosexuals.  We have way too many fundamentalists in the Kingdom that are hypocritical and judgmental.  The sins that offend them the most are the sins that they believe offend God the most.  This is just not true.  So I would say that I agree with most of what I have read today.

But the problem I have is that most all of those trying to find another answer seem to want to just overlook sin in its entirety.  I am not saying this about those whose comments I have read today but I have been thinking this way myself a lot lately.  But is that going to do those in sinful lifestyles any better than the fundamentalist viewpoint?

Let’s say the fundamentalist is wrong and God loves everyone enough that no matter what they do He will not turn them away.  Then we really have to introduce these people to Christ so they can have a chance.  It is not up to us who is in and who is out.  It is up to God.

But look at what happens if those who want to say sin is alright and all things are forgiven and covered by the blood of Christ are wrong.  We may share some warm and loving moments while we reach out to those living in sin while we are on this planet, before eternity, and then have them turn to us at judgment and ask why we did not warn them.

I just don’t know.

This whole issue is tough.  I am of the opinion that neither side is right but I admit that I do not know where to draw any lines.  I do know that we must all, me, you, adulterers, homosexuals, liars, thieves, etc., present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.  We must also not be conformed to this world, but instead be transformed by the renewal of our minds.  And this is the only way that we can even begin to try to discern what the will of God is and what is good and acceptable and perfect.

One thing I do know is that we better get serious about finding out what God wants us to do about all this.  Just feeling good about our own beliefs is not the answer and there is more at stake than causing anyone to feel ostracized or unloved here.  There are eternal consequences to our answers to these dilemmas.

This is serious and I believe must be concluded but as I said, I just don’t know.

Love you all

We were on our way to church last evening and the last few minutes of daylight were passing away.  At one point I became entranced by the size of the full moon that was fully visible despite the daylight.  This vision got me to thinking about the reality of things and the ways we interpret the bible.  Figure that one out.  The paths our thoughts sometimes make are amazing.

What I thought about was how most of us interpret the first ten chapters of Genesis.  I, like most of you, look at these passages as literal as I can, especially the creation account and the fall.  I tend to think of Adam and Eve as real people and of the Fall as a real event.  But there are some that do not.

There are theologians that look at these first verses of scripture as allegory, or an attempt to metaphorically represent certain spiritual truths.  This view is nothing new as most things theological are not new.  There has been a division over this view of interpretation from the beginnings of Judaism.  This approach can be consistent with an inerrant view of the bible but not from a fundamentalist style of literalism.

Gen 1:16  And God made the two great lights–the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night–and the stars.

If we take the moon itself as the lesser light, and we certainly do not have too, then we can see this as metaphorical and we know it cannot be literal.  And there are other arguments that can be raised also.

I am not really concerned with the debate between theologians over this issue.  What I am concerned with is the questions that are asked by non-believers over some of these same issues and our inability to give in on some things to reach out to them.  There are so many people out there that won’t give Jesus a chance over some of our unbending views of creation, the flood, etc. and etc.  Shouldn’t the love of Christ and Him giving Himself for us be the focus and isn’t that enough.

I am not against those ministries that put all their resources into some of these views about the bible but when they think that an argument concerning a young or old earth is going to bring lost souls into the kingdom, I have to wonder about that and them.  These types of arguments should, in my opinion, be reserved for those that are mature in Christ, and not the lost.

As far as whether the first chapters of Genesis are literal or allegorical, I will not commit.  It seems to me that both have their merit.  But I do know that Jesus, who I know is God, primarily used parables to teach His truths.

Love you all

Today’s discussion concerns a famous statement that is in the United States Declaration of Independence.  The statement is…

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

If we were to unpack this statement we could find many things in it but the focus here will be on Rights.  Three of the Rights that supposedly were self evident to the framers of the document are the right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.  These Rights are also supposedly given to us by our creator.

The questions for today that I would like to know your answers to are these.

• As Christians, do you believe our creator, God, has given us these rights?
• Do you believe we have any rights at all?
• What are they?

The focus here is what is given to us by God, not the USA.  The Government of this nation has decided we do have certain rights and I am all for and do not deny that.  I am also thankful for these rights.

But I want to know if you think the statement in the Declaration is in alignment with what you perceive about God.

Love you all