I was going to make the discussion today a simple one without much controversy.  I decided instead to see what some of you think about what evidently is pretty controversial.  At least what I have been reading so far suggests it will be.

It has to do with violence and death.  I am interested in your views about a couple of things along these lines.  First, I have read a lot of comments from a lot of evangelicals about guns and self defense.  Second, I also read a lot recently about the torture issue.  Third, and last for now, I found some commentary about the death penalty that got very divisive among a group of evangelicals.  All of the views that I have read were mostly from Christians, with a few unbelievers chiming in on a few sites.  I just want to know what you think.

Do you think we should own guns for self defense?

Would you shoot someone?

Do you believe torture is ever justified?

Do you believe we should condone the death penalty?

Can you justify your beliefs with scripture?

Thanks in advance for your participation.

Love you all

In September of 2007 I went from working 70 to 80 hours a week to about that same amount every month.  It has gotten even worse since then.  Back when I was so busy I barely had enough time to read some news, check television schedules and pay my bills while online.  I had heard of bulletin boards, forums, blogs, and other forms of communication on the internet but had never read or participated in them.  When the work schedule changed so drastically, I started reading more but I also started stumbling across blogs and forums and such.  Sometimes I wish I had not.

One of the first things I stumbled across was a site where a lot of ministers in my own denomination hung out.  It was also right before the General Assembly which is when the Church of God votes on change of leadership and other important issues.  I learned way too much.  I read a lot of things that ministers were saying and are saying and it makes me just want to run.  I want out of my denomination, out of my church and sometimes wish I was even out of the Kingdom.  If it truly could just be about me and Jesus, all would be fine.  But it can’t.  It is about relationship, community and the mission.

What I see coming from most Christians though is that it is about them.  Or for some, it is about their denomination.  If I hear another minister say how great a man of God someone is because they have did so much for the Church of God denomination instead of for the Lord of all the Church, I think I may explode.  I love the COG, it has done so much for me, how can you not love this grand old institution; these are a few of the many types of things some, and sadly they are usually the older ministers, say to anyone that questions the corruption that is so evident from the facts.  The corruption I am speaking about is the corruption of the mission.  But there is obviously even more.

I just finished reading Forgotten Ways, The: Reactivating the Missional Church by Alan Hirsch.  He wrote the following statement in it.

“In catering to the religious needs of some (largely the insiders) it has as a consequence failed to respond to the wider spiritual hunger of not-yet-Christians.”

He is referring to the institutional church; the denominations, the buildings, the hierarchy, the dogma, and the self-righteousness of our religion in conservative American Christianity.  We do not seem to want to do much more than token mission anymore.  We do enough to feel good about ourselves and even then, we ask those that need us to come to us instead of us going to them.  My own denominations problems seem to bear Hirsch’s thoughts out exactly.  The leaders at a certain level seem to only care about themselves and the continuance of the institution that caters to their aggrandizement.

This book has opened my eyes to a lot of things that I was already seeing and feeling.  I was just too busy to notice it until about the last year and a half.  The book is about becoming missional again.  The early church was missional but some of the older people in the COG seem to think this is some new spiritual fad or something and that we just need to get back to the old ways.  They don’t know how wrong and how right they are.  They are wrong about missional being a fad and right about needing to get back to the old ways.  But the old ways are much older than they think.  They are pre-Contantinian.  The early, persecuted church had it right.  So that is pretty old ways.

I think all ministers should be required to read this book and see if it does not check their spirit.  It has my own and I am nothing but a layman.  I am just so tired of seeing the people of God the same way I saw them when I was an atheist.  And I am not forgetting that I am one of them now.  I am going to figure out a way to be the person God needs me to be in His Kingdom today.  If it means changes are in store, then that is what will happen.  I wish more would join me in this endeavor to become what God meant for us to be.

One of the first things that I wish would be gotten rid of is this almost idolatrous view of “my” church, “my” denomination, “my” leaders, “my” ministry, and anything else we are so proud of because we see it as “ours”.  All of these things belong to Jesus, if they should really even exist.

I am sorry if anyone takes offense at anything I have written.  I know there may even be repercussions if I keep on saying some of the things I am saying.  But I am more concerned with the eternal repercussions if I keep quiet.

We do seem to have forgotten that it is not about us.  It is not about our comfort, our contentedness, or even our happiness.  Church is not an institution.  Church is a living, breathing, organism that is gasping for the breath of life because that breath, the Holy Spirit, seems to be slowly being pushed away by our inward instead of an outward focus.

Get the book.  Read it.  Come back and let me know if it woke anything in you.  It certainly has in me.  And not everyone will like it.

Love you all

“Okay, I’ll do it,” Susie said determinedly.

“Cool,” her boyfriend Jack exclaimed.  “This may be the last vacation we get to go on for a while or you know that I wouldn’t even ask.”

“I know.  I just wish I had not gone through more than seven months of this.  When we decided to try it you did not even bring this surfing trip up.”

“I’m sorry, baby.  I didn’t think we would have the money.  But that bonus was enough for this and what we will need now too.”

Susie asked, “How long until we get there?”

The couple had been driving for six hours.  They were heading for the beach.  Jack had thought he would have to surf without her.  He hated the idea.  They both loved surfing and had not been able to go for more than two years because of new jobs which had caused them to have to move.  He loved it so much though, and she was the one that wouldn’t give in.

“We can get off the next exit and see but I would bet there is probably one of those new chop shops somewhere close”

He was right.  They found the shop within an hour and pulled in the parking lot.  It was pretty full and he just hoped they could get serviced quickly.  They still had about twelve hours of driving ahead of them.  They would probably have to spend the night somewhere.  He had hoped to make it by morning but if Susie could surf with him it was worth it.

They went in and signed in at the counter and picked up a brochure and sat to discuss its contents.  After about twenty minutes their names were called.  They were directed to a small but comfortable room with a bed and a couple of chairs.  Then a tall man in white joined them.

“I am Dr Walters.  What can we do for you today?”

“We want the Drop and Hop procedure.  It is a little expensive but we don’t really want to waste any time.  We’re going to the beach on vacation,” Jack answered.

The doctor smiled and said, “That’s great.  How far along are you?” he asked as he looked at Susie’s belly.

“Seven months and ten days.  It was due on May 4th and we had arranged already to sell it to one of those sterile families but,” she stopped and just smiled sheepishly.

“That’s okay,” the doctor said, smiling back at her.  “A lot of young couples are doing it also.  But there is no sense in letting it ruin a vacation.  We might even be able to bring it out alive still if you chose a different method.”

Jack jumped in, “No, we don’t need the money like we did.  We’ll still go with the Drop and Hop.”  Susie nodded.

Dr Walters smiled at the eager couple and nodded.  “No problem.  We’ll have that fetus out in 30 minutes or less or you get your money back.”  He laughed at his own joke while they joined him even though they were too young to remember the old commercial the doctor referenced.  “All joking aside, this new procedure will allow you to be rid of this minor inconvenience within two hours and you’ll be on your way.”

“Awesome,” Jack said as Susie nodded and smiled.  “Surfs up,” she thought.

**************************************************************************

This is my sorry attempt at horror fiction.  It is horror because it is probably not that farfetched or too far in the future.  The life of the unborn is already seen as cheap and in many cases an inconvenience.  If we keep on the way we are now on the issue of abortion, don’t be surprised if this little sorry piece of fiction becomes prophetic.

Jason has a post on his blog here where he asks for some practical solutions to this issue.  It is time we took this on as the main issue in our culture and society that we need to address.  No, not address, we need to do something real.  We need to go a lot farther than we are in our attempts to change people’s minds about abortion.  And since I believe Jesus is the only one that can change minds, it has to start with the gospel.  We should be more than barbarians.

Go to Jason’s blog and share your thoughts there as well as here.

Love you all

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

On Tuesday I tried to provoke a discussion about “rights” as declared in one of our nation’s founding documents.  I believe in a way that I failed.  It seems that we all have a tendency to assign our own definitions to words when it comes to ideology.  And many of us want to go off on tangents that take us to those things that we individually hold dear.  I sometimes get a little frustrated and when I try to clarify it may seem a little harsh.  I do not mean it that way.  I am just trying to get some answers to questions that I have.  I do want your opinions and your participation, even when we do not agree, but I do want to discuss from common ground.

If you have ever discussed theology with one of our Catholic brothers, then you might understand.  As Protestants, most of us shore up our doctrine with the Word of God as proclaimed in the Bible.  But Catholics will quickly let you know that some of their beliefs are not biblically justified but are just as reliable doctrinally due to other things such as church doctrine, Catholic writings, the catechism, and even the words of the pope.  We can’t truly discuss anything with them because of the basic lack of an agreed upon foundation.

The same thing seems to be going on in my previous post.  Being a simple man, and maybe not at the level of intelligence as some of my commenter’s, I tend to read most things as they are written.  I am not trying to apply a certain definition to “rights” or “equal” or “life” or “liberty” or “the pursuit of happiness”.  I simply define them for what they are in light of the context of the words I am reading.  So I will define what I see being said as I go.

We hold these truths (an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude) to be self-evident (evident in itself without proof or demonstration; axiomatic.), that all men are created (to cause to happen; bring about; arrange, as by intention or design) equal (Having the same quantity, measure, or value as another.), that they are endowed (provided or supplied or equipped with) by their Creator (God) with certain unalienable (Not to be separated, given away, or taken away) Rights (Something that is due to a person), that among these are Life (the animate existence or period of animate existence of an individual), Liberty (freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control, from external or foreign rule, from control, interference, obligation, restriction, hampering conditions, from captivity, confinement, or physical restraint) and the pursuit (an effort to secure or attain) of Happiness (good fortune; pleasure; contentment; joy).

It seems to me that this whole statement shows that the framers of this highly esteemed document did not really know the Creator very well at all.  Before you get angry at me, remember that I am not arguing about what the founding fathers wanted or tried to establish.  It seems they did their very best in a fallen, sin-stained, self-absorbed world to fashion a nation that takes the one thing in the statement above that is true, equality, and makes it almost a reality.  But even that has taken over two centuries.  Just think about why there was recently a historical precedent set when our newest president was inaugurated.

Our rights, especially life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are what we hang on to.  These are the points behind which we stand and declare that we are something special indeed.  It seems that our adversary relied on this same concept in the garden.  Aren’t we as special as God?  As Americans, we surely are.

When I read some of your comments over the last two days I am tempted to give in and agree with some of you.  All these things sound good to me but yet, I do not ever want to see something about God that is not true.  I really almost want to agree about life as a right but even that has to looked at as what it is.  And what is the word I would use instead of rights?  What, exactly, is life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?  I agree these do come from our creator, but they are not rights.  They, like everything else God has given us, are gifts.  Someone used the word privilege and that to me is not quite right either.  Privilege is like an allowance, something given maybe because it is earned or due.  I believe we can become even better soldiers for the Kingdom when we realize everything, all that we have, are “gifts”.

When I read this famous statement and compare it to what I know and what the bible teaches me about God, about the only thing that stands as truth is the part about us all being equal.  But as we know from history, and even the times we live in, equality as a concept still has a long way to go.  Equality is very biblical.  We must start pursuing it like we do happiness.  We must start valuing it as much as we do our liberty.  We must start seeing it as being as important as life itself.

I, personally, do not think we have any rights, anything that I am owed just for existing, from God.  I instead thank Him for the gift of life, for the liberty I have in Christ, and in the place of happiness, for the sheer joy I have in being one of His.

My Declaration of Independence from the kingdoms of the world begins with…

I hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal and for a loving relationship with God and each other, that we are blessed by our Creator with more Gifts than we can imagine, and that among these are Life and  Liberty in Christ and Happiness and Joy by pursuing the Kingdom of God.

I thank God for these Gifts.

Love you all