It seems to me that maybe I have been a little bold lately in some of my posts.  Commenting about controversial issues and even getting a little harsh is some responses.  Some of this stems from a passion for Gods truth while some may just come from that confrontational part of me that I just wrote about and am truly trying to tame.  But it is not tamed and there are good reasons for some of what I ask.  I really am still learning myself.  And one of the ways to learn what we believe is to bounce those beliefs off those that others hold.  So the questions for today may spark more controversy.  I hope not and I really do not want any heated arguments or words of offense.  But I do want to know what you think.

We also touched on this topic a while back in some of the comments.  That post was not about this exactly and really had another focus.  So if you replied there about this topic you can fell free to comment again here.

The bible is pretty clear about Gods views on drunkenness.  Most people do not see such clear lines about alcohol consumption though.

What do you think the bible says about consuming alcohol?

What do you personally think about consuming alcohol and why?

Please keep it civil but tell us what you think.

Love you all

Tags: alcohol, Belief, consumption, controversial issues, drunkenness, fruit of the vine, Personal, town hall, Truth, Tuesday

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.  Gal 5:22-23

On Tuesday’s discussion, right out of the gate, Doug made some comments about self-control.  Thanks Doug, for pushing this forward.  I have been pondering, jotting down some thoughts and praying about the fruits of the Spirit as listed in Galatians.  I was going to get a series together before I started posting, and then they might come along quicker.  I am so easily sidetracked it seems.  But Doug got me thinking again and I decided to start with the last in the list of fruit since he brought it up and I feel strongly about it also.

All of the fruit are things that should be naturally growing in and out of us as we grow in our relationship with Christ.  They are the visible attributes of truly walking the Christ centered walk.  We are first saved and then as we grow in sanctification these nine things listed as fruit should start to become apparent in our lives.

Self control is listed last but I don’t believe it is any less or more than the others with the exception of possibly love.  But if I stay in reverse order then love will be last.  Self control is a good starting point because it is needed so very much in the church today.  And it needs to be properly understood.

We live in a time and a place, if you are in America, where we are lost in our self-centeredness and materialistic view of life.  The war between the flesh and the spirit is raging in all of us to some degree.  It is so easy to look at everything we do with the attitude of ‘what’s in it for me.’  This is diametrically opposed to the servant attitude we should have.  It is why the world looks at us and sees no difference between us and them.

A well known speaker or preacher that demands a $10,000.00 ‘offering’ or they can’t come, a Christian writer who lifts one catchy scripture out of context and sets up a whole new revelatory way of making our lives richer to sell a million copies of a book, a perpetually smiling preacher telling us how great we all have it in the Kingdom of God while we live on less per year than he spends on his dental hygienics; is this self control?  Is this fruit of the spirit?  I believe I would file it under self-centered greed.

The above examples show people that really aren’t even trying to have their spirits win the war against the flesh.  But there are also those that try too hard in another wrong way.  These we sometimes call legalists, fundamentalists, extreme conservatives.  They try to find ways to make the Law of God, as listed in the Old Testament, or their own made up rules about many mundane parts of life, the methods of achieving and displaying self-control.

You may know a few of these people.  They look at things like tattoos, jewelry, makeup, and the length of both men and women’s hair, as ways of establishing or determining self-control.  There are many other things like alcohol consumption, smoking, dancing, card playing and others that make the list also.  And to many of these people these are not only self control issues, they are salvific issues.  A tattoo will send you to hell.

Then there are monks and other religious orders that simply take a person out of the world.  This is also an attempt at self-control or a method of mastering ourselves.  I even know of some people that declare that their own ‘personal convictions’ demand they do or don’t do certain things like watching TV or going to movies but that it is still okay for the rest of us.  How gracious on their part.  But do they have anymore self-control than I or are they just putting limits on their selves that keep them from actually growing this fruit called self-control.

God may not be honored in a lot of the things we do but we are living in a fallen world, occupied territory as it were, in a battle for our very lives.  Jesus set us free from the Law because He fulfilled the Law.  We are free in Christ but we must live in holiness, which is being separated from the world for service to Christ.  All while an angry enemy roars all around us.

A tattoo is not going to stop that service but self control will dictate that we set some limits.  Some jewelry or makeup will not send us screaming into hell because we had no self-control but the ability to know when we are making clowns of ourselves will display it to the world.  On and on I could go but I don’t want to lose you.

The very ones who practice all these things and many more and say “look at me, I have self-control”, are only living a life of rules and regulations that show no one but themselves any hint of self control.  True self-control is finding that line that separates self-centeredness from service-centeredness; and staying on the side of service.

We have to realize we do have to set limits.  But I believe those limits will be dictated to a certain degree on our place of service, our area of ministry.  A person might have just the right amount of tattoos, piercings,  or long hair to reach a group of lost bikers or youth.

Jesus ate and drank wine with miserable lowlife sinners and did not get drunk or sin in any way they did.  But He had a mission to go to them and tell them the good news.  We have that same mission so how are those that never associate with anyone but those of like-legalistic-mind, accomplishing their mission.

Jesus called a man to be a disciple named Matthew and he was a tax collector.  Jesus also called a man named Simon who was a Zealot.  As far as the Jews were concerned Matthew was an extreme, unpatriotic traitor and Simon was an extreme, patriotic loyalist.  They should have killed each other but instead they loved each other and became servants to Christ and to us all.

That is mastering one’s self.  That is self-control.

Love you all

Tags: Christ, Church, Conservative, consumption, Enemy, Fruit of the Spirit, galatians, Hell, Lie, Love, relationship, Self, self centeredness, Servant, spirit

I just want to thank everybody who has visited, read and commented on this site.  I love you all and am going to keep this short.  We are coming up on one of the most important holidays we have.  Or at least that is what I think. 

Thanksgiving.

But as we look around it is being left behind to some degree.  How much longer will it be before it becomes totally changed to the pre Christmas Christmas or Christmas Shopping Holiday?    Thanksgiving just does not have a chance.  It is not in the same league as Valentine’s Day, Halloween, Christmas or even Easter because of its lack in generating gift expenditures.  And it doesn’t even compare to New Years or the 4th because alcohol consumption is not the main focus. 

But if you do live in America, you do have so much to be thankful for.  So for today, the question is simple.

What are you especially thankful for?

Have a great Thanksgiving and remember it is so much more than just a day off to eat and watch football.

Love you all.

Tags: America, Christmas, consumption, Easter, football, Halloween, holidays, Thanks, Thanksgiving, town hall, Valentine

I am saddened by what I see going on in the leadership of some of the churches around us.  There are loads of things being done and accepted in the name of relevance, tolerance, sensitivity and freedom.  But the main one at the moment and the focus of this post is about Pastors flaunting their perceived liberties.

I have been following many different discussions about the consumption of alcohol on a bulletin board site that is listed in my links.  It will not be there after I am through writing this because I am tired of seeing people in a leadership capacity in my denomination flaunting their liberties in direct conflict of their vows.  I am not denying the freedom we have in Christ.  I actually believe that the grace of God for the redeemed is probably covering more than we think.  So what is my problem?   

The Bible addresses the issue of alcohol in many places.  It never condemns but does warn of some dangers in its consumption.  Do a search for alcohol and you will find this in many, many scriptures.  Too many to list here.  But again, I emphasize that it does not condemn drinking alcohol.  It does however, not only condemn, but actually commands us to not be drunk. 

So the first question is; what is drunkenness?  Is it falling down and passing out; or is it a certain blood alcohol level; or is it simply the alteration of our normal state of mind, like a “buzz”?  I don’t know.  But I will say that I lived in Germany for three years in a culture where drinking alcohol was just a normal part of the culture.  You could buy beer at McDonalds.  I saw firsthand a culture that drank alcohol with no agenda other than to have something to drink.

But in America, most, note I said most, people drink to achieve at the very least, a change in their state of mind, an altered consciousness.  They want to loosen up or be different than whom they are and if they are like the way I used to be, they are trying to get high or drunk.  And that is going directly against the word of God. 

But there are quite a few people proclaiming that they do drink alcohol, but only in moderation.  So what is the problem?  Well, in other denominations I don’t know if there is one.  But as far as the Church of God goes, we all made a commitment to certain doctrinal precepts and practical commitments when we became members.   This is an excerpt from the practical commitments we agreed to uphold.

One of the primary benefits of our liberty in Christ is freedom from the domination of negative forces (John 8:32, 36; Romans 6:14; 8:2). We are counseled not to put ourselves again under bondage (Galatians 5:1). Therefore, a Christian must totally abstain from all alcoholic beverages and other habit-forming and mood-altering chemical substances and refrain from the use of tobacco in any form, marijuana and all other addictive substances, and further, must refrain from any activity (such as gambling or gluttony) which defiles the body as the temple of God or which dominates and enslaves the spirit that has been made free in Christ (Proverbs 20:1; 23:20-35; Isaiah 28:7; 1 Corinthians 3:17; 5:11; 6:10; 2 Corinthians 7:1; James 1:21).

Now some are arguing about drinking not being a sin and that they will never preach that it is.  That is okay with me.  I see nothing in the preceding statement saying that this must be preached about as sin.  Some are also saying that it is alright to drink moderately since it is not a sin.  And to this I also say okay.  But here is where the problem comes up and why I am saddened and close to angry.

Jas 5:12  But above all, my brothers, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or by any other oath, but let your “yes” be yes and your “no” be no, so that you may not fall under condemnation.

Deu 23:23  You shall be careful to do what has passed your lips, for you have voluntarily vowed to the LORD your God what you have promised with your mouth.

As I said, when we became members of this denomination, we actually let it pass from our lips that we would uphold these practical commitments.  Members should search their hearts and see if they are truly honoring God by not letting their “yes” be yes.  But that is between them and our Lord. 

But Pastors and leaders, or those claiming to be, are the ones that upset me.  Why?  Because I want to follow a leader I can TRUST.  If you only follow 99.5 percent of the vow you made, as one pastor boasted, then you might as well not follow the rest.  At least that is the way I see it.  If I can’t totally trust you to have the integrity to adhere to your vows, I can’t trust you at all.  And you have people’s lives in your hands.

I am probably the first one to question beliefs and doctrine in my church.  And as I said, I do not see that the Bible teaches that all alcohol consumption is sin.  There are other things, such as gluttony being sin, which is a whole lot clearer. But there is nothing unclear about James 5:12 or Deu 23:23 in the least. 

If they believe the practical commitments are wrong, outdated, or unbiblical, which I believe some of them could be, there are other options for them.  They can follow the proper procedure to change them or leave the denomination.  If I wanted to drink a beer as bad as some of them evidently do, then I would surrender my membership immediately.  Some of us seem to love ourselves a little too much. 

Pastors and other leaders, instead of flaunting their liberties about the consumption of alcohol,  need to be the first to stand and say that they will honor their vows.  If they do not then they will answer for it someday.  Their liberty about alcohol is overruled by the lack of liberty to lie.  As for me, I would never submit myself to them or sit under their leadership. 

How could I?  I am sorry but, I can’t trust a liar.

Love you all

Tags: America, Belief, Bible, Church, consumption, Culture, denomination, drinking alcohol, drunkenness, gluttony, Grace, Leadership, liberties, Lie, pastors, scriptures, Sin